# Could a Victrola's needle follow the groove in a warped record? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 30, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-victrolas-needle-follow-the-groove-in-a-warped-record/729426 "2015-08-30T20:11:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-victrolas-needle-follow-the-groove-in-a-warped-record/729426/1 "2015-08-30T20:11:42Z")
Modern turntables have counter-weighted tone arms and stand a reasonable chance of staying with a record even if it has some warping. But while watching season 1 of _Carnivale_ (finally), I’ve seen several instances of someone using a Victrola (that is, [one like this](http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/billingsgazette.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/11/4110ba9f-dc6f-5ad8-9cff-b8f95dbb2d0f/5127c2d6933cb.preview-620.jpg)) to play a record with a very visible warp in it. I was under the impression that those needles were just basically on pivot points and really didn’t have any ability to give and take in that way. Goof on their part, or ignorance on mine? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-victrolas-needle-follow-the-groove-in-a-warped-record/729426/2 "2015-08-30T21:23:29Z")
In the Victrola era, records were made of shellac, and had a groove about three times wider than the later LP records pressed on vinyl. If anything, they were more forgiving of an uneven surface than a modern tone arm would be. [Here’s a site](http://www.victor-victrola.com/Basics%20of%20the%20Acoustic%20Phonograph.htm)with more information than you’d ever want to know about old phonographs. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-victrolas-needle-follow-the-groove-in-a-warped-record/729426/3 "2015-08-30T21:42:41Z")
On those early gramophones the pressure on the needle was quite a lot. We had a wind up one when I was a child and we were supposed to only use the needles once. We faithfully changed the needle every time until we ran out and then start over again. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-victrolas-needle-follow-the-groove-in-a-warped-record/729426/4 "2015-08-31T02:36:15Z")
You might as well use a shingle nail. It would tear a vinyl record to shreds just as easily as a steel needle but would be cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-victrolas-needle-follow-the-groove-in-a-warped-record/729426/5 "2015-08-31T18:56:46Z")
I’ve got roughly 150 78 RPM records and don’t think I’ve ever seen one of them have a warp. They’re brittle, not bendy. If the record has a simple up and down warp, a Victrola should be able to track it. The reproducer or soundbox pivots up and down freely. This is assuming it’s in good repair - I’m in the midst of restoring a Victrola and one of the rubber parts in the joint between the soundbox and the tone arm was so badly hardened that I first thought it was cast metal. Were 78s ever made in anything other than shellac? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-victrolas-needle-follow-the-groove-in-a-warped-record/729426/6 "2015-08-31T20:12:23Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Were 78s ever made in anything other than shellac? Originally they were made from hard rubber. Beginning in the late 1930s RCA began pressing them in vinyl and other labels followed with their own vinyl compounds. As a medium, though, vinyl didn’t really work until the record player manufacturers got rid of the steel needles and heavy tone arms after World War 2. By then the LP records were being introduced. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-victrolas-needle-follow-the-groove-in-a-warped-record/729426/7 "2015-08-31T20:14:23Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Were 78s ever made in anything other than shellac? Rubber, then shellac, then vinyl (over a cardboard base). My family used to have some vinyl 78s; children’s five-inch-diameter records and a couple of 10-inch-diameters with the label Hit of the Week, probably owned by one of the majors. > **[Phonograph record](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramophone_record#Speeds)** > > A phonograph record (also known as a gramophone record, especially in British English) or a vinyl record (for later varieties only) is an analog sound storage medium in the form of a flat disc with an inscribed, modulated spiral groove. The groove usually starts near the outside edge and ends near the center of the disc. The stored sound information is made audible by playing the record on a phonograph (or "gramophone", "turntable", or "record player"). > Records have been produced in different ... Scroll down to the heading 78 rpm materials. **Ninjad!** ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-victrolas-needle-follow-the-groove-in-a-warped-record/729426/8 "2015-09-01T11:23:50Z")
Thanks, everyone, for saving me from submitting an embarrassingly wrong “Goof” to IMDb.