# Could a WW1 fighter pilot fly a F111 (possible spoilers)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 27, 2020, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018 "2020-12-27T13:11:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/1 "2020-12-27T13:11:26Z")
I am guessing no. If a healthy [US Army Air Service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Air_Service) pilot from 1918 was magically transported next to [a F111](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-111_Aardvark), could he actually fly it right there and then? WIth(out) 12-18 months of instruction? Since he already knows how to operate an aircraft guess any training period would be truncated but still substantial.
He won’t jump in and be able to fly it by moving a few dials and hitting the odd button would he?
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/2 "2020-12-27T13:17:34Z")
What I do know:
Taking off on a runway isn’t suppose to be that hard.
The actual flying part in good conditions, not that hard.
There is quite possibly and probably a pre-flight checklist\* the pilot could follow.
Landing safely is the hard part.
\* The stupid movie that inspired this question should have shown the pre-flight checklist.
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### Author:  [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/3 "2020-12-27T13:18:44Z")
Not a hope. I doubt they could even get it started. Not to mention they might not have the physical requirements for a modern fighter pilot.
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/4 "2020-12-27T13:48:56Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> - The stupid movie that inspired this question should have shown the pre-flight checklist.
The fighter pilot father of the Director of that stupid movie no doubt was spinning in his grave at that scene.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/5 "2020-12-27T14:04:49Z")
On the other hand, isn’t an awful lot of the routine operation of a modern fighter automated? I mean, I wouldn’t necessarily trust the autopilot to get me through a dogfight (but then again, I wouldn’t trust me to get me through a dogfight, either), but takeoffs, straight level flight, and even landings shouldn’t be too hard, should they?
The WWI pilot probably would need at least a few minutes to be shown which buttons to push to make the autopilot do things, but I can’t imagine it’d be anywhere near 12 months.
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### Author:  [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/6 "2020-12-27T15:30:37Z")
> [@AK84](#):
>
> He won’t jump in and be able to fly it by moving a few dials and hitting the odd button would he?
This is the engine start procedure for an F-111. It’s from a flight sim so it might not be 100 percent correct but it should at least give a rough idea of how complicated it is to just start the engines.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzus8DFZsD4)
I don’t think that anyone unfamiliar with the F-111 could just hop in and go.
ETA:
Here is the takeoff procedure (same flight sim). I doubt that your WWI pilot would know that the wings have to be swept forward for takeoff. The rest doesn’t look too bad, though I am not a pilot and I don’t know the implications of things like not setting the takeoff trim.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLURYXwhHzE)
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/7 "2020-12-27T16:51:48Z")
By contrast, here’s the cockpit of the WW1-ear JN-4 Jenny.
[ ](https://firstaerosquadron.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/jn-4-rear-cockpitoldrhinebeck.jpg?w=625&h=469)
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/8 "2020-12-27T17:09:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> On the other hand, isn’t an awful lot of the routine operation of a modern fighter automated? I mean, I wouldn’t necessarily trust the autopilot to get me through a dogfight (but then again, I wouldn’t trust me to get me through a dogfight, either), but takeoffs, straight level flight, and even landings shouldn’t be too hard, should they?
An F-111 is a 1960s era jet. Any autopilot it has isn’t going to be super advanced and would probably only automate the things a WW1 pilot would be already be able to do themselves.
I think the WW1 pilot would be able to fly the F-111 around provided it had been set up for them, I.e another pilot starts, taxis, takes-off,climbs, levels out and sets the thrust for a comfortable speed prior to handing over control. If the vintage pilot was just thrown in to a cold ship he would have no idea and would be as likely to get airborne as someone off the street.
An F-111 is big and fast. Its _empty_ weight of 47000 lbs is nearly as heavy as a fully loaded commercial turbo-prop such as an ATR-72 or Dash 8.
> **[ATR 72](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATR_72)**
>
> The ATR 72 is a twin-engine turboprop, short-haul regional airliner developed and produced in France and Italy by aircraft manufacturer ATR (French: Avions de transport régional or Italian: Aerei da Trasporto Regionale), a joint venture formed by French aerospace company Aérospatiale (now part of Airbus) and Italian aviation conglomerate Aeritalia (now Leonardo S.p.A.). The number "72" in its name is derived from the aircraft's typical standard seating capacity of 72 passengers.
> During the 198...
The F-111s maximum take-off weight is significantly more than the max weight of a small passenger jet such as an Embraer E175.
> **[Embraer E-Jet family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_E-Jet_family)**
>
> The Embraer E-Jet family is a series of four-abreast, narrow-body, short- to medium-range, twin-engined jet airliners designed and produced by Brazilian aerospace manufacturer Embraer.
> The E-Jet was designed as a complement to the preceding ERJ family, Embraer's first jet-powered regional jet. Designed to carry between 66 and 124 passengers, it was larger than any prior aircraft built by the company. The project's existence was revealed in early 1997 and was formally introduced at the Paris Ai...
The WW1 pilot would’ve been flying something like a Sopwith Camel that weighs around 1300 lbs fully loaded and flies at 100 mph and would be used to having the engine running at full power a lot of the time. The F-111 is capable of Mach 2.5 at altitude and Mach 1.2 at sea level. If it’s anything like other jets, it has oodles of thrust available at sea level and if left at full thrust, as a Camel pilot might be expected to do, would be screaming along at 1000 mph in no time.
My guess is that there’s a good chance the F-111 would be a smoking hole in the ground before the pilot realised he was airborne.
It would be like taking someone who’d only ever driven a kids pedal car and putting them into an F1 car.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/9 "2020-12-27T17:22:07Z")
What is the movie?
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/10 "2020-12-27T17:28:02Z")
He couldn’t even get it started.
But, if you put him in it, running, on the end of a runway, he could probably fly around. He couldn’t do anything useful, like shoot or make things go boom, navigate to a specific place, manage his fuel supply, fly in bad weather, or go supersonic.
He could land, without knowing how to lower the gear, because he never raised his gear in the first place.
And then he’d run off the end of the runway and crash in the ditch.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/11 "2020-12-27T17:30:10Z")
‘If you can fly a Sopwith Camel you can fly anything!’ - James Bigglesworth
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/12 "2020-12-27T17:30:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> ‘If you can fly a Sopwith Camel you can fly anything!’ - James Bigglesworth
That’s why Snoopy was the first Apollo commander and first “man” on the moon.
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### Author:  [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/13 "2020-12-27T17:41:02Z")
There was an F-111 simulator open to the public in Southern California, many years ago, under the “Fightertown” moniker. I’ve ridden in it. It’s overwhelming, to put it lightly. Stuff happens _fast_ even at straight and level. My attempts at landing it were hilariously awful. Anyway, I recommend it to anyone in the Tustin, CA area.
EDIT: Oh, and dual flying with your wife, is about as marriage testing as dual kayaking or tandem biking.
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### Author:  [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/14 "2020-12-27T17:49:54Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> What is the movie?
Spoilered because it’s a movie in current release:
_Wonder Woman 1984_. Through a convoluted plot device, a pilot character is time displaced (or nearly enough for purposes of this thread) from World War I to 1984. With no training or instruction or a manual or a checklist or _anything_, he climbs into the cockpit of an F-111, fiddles with a couple of controls, and then smoothly takes off and flies it.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/15 "2020-12-27T18:08:11Z")
He could if he was able to tap into the muscle memory of the modern pilot whose body he was inhabiting. Where’s my no-prize?
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/16 "2020-12-27T18:12:09Z")
New body wasn’t a pilot though. So still a no go. Smart idea though, shame the writers didn’t think of that dodge or you know, an SOP or Flight check list.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/17 "2020-12-27T18:12:21Z")
Sorry to hear what movie it is.
Still better than non-pilots flying 1000 year old planes in Battlefield Earth.
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### Author:  [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/18 "2020-12-27T18:49:45Z")
Check lists weren’t invented until the 1935 Model 299 crash (gust locks left in place). So he wouldn’t know to look for one. Even if he had the check list I doubt he could find the switches in any reasonable amount of time (as that video engineer\_comp\_geek linked showed).
With regard to throttle settings, rotary engines (used on many WWI planes such as the Sopwith Camel) didn’t have a throttle. The engine was set to full power and then the pilot had a “cut switch” that let him turn it off to land. So the idea of setting a moderate throttle setting for normal flight would be completely unknown. Take off at full throttle and don’t raise the landing gear will probably break something pretty quick.
Taking off with the wrong trim setting can vary from uncomfortable (most small aircraft) to unflyable (stick force needed too high for any human as was the case for many WWII planes). Don’t know an F111 specifically, but reading pilot memoirs going from WWII propeller planes to 1960’s jets they usually note how much lighter stick forces are, trim settings neutral for takeoff instead of large offsets to handle takeoff engine torque.
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### Author:  [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/19 "2020-12-27T19:04:44Z")
To flip the question around, could a 1984 F-111 pilot fly a WW1 fighter, such as the Sopwith Camel? While the instruments are basic, I understand the Camel was an extremely unforgiving plane to fly. Could the pilot get it started and fly it?
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### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-ww1-fighter-pilot-fly-a-f111-possible-spoilers/929018/20 "2020-12-27T19:08:42Z")
I wouldn’t see why not. a 1984 pilot probably has experience in small prop planes. If they know _nothing_ about it, then the startup sequence may be tough to figure out, but they shouldn’t have any problem with it.
There _are_ original and replica WWI fighters out there that someone who is dedicated enough to get into the cockpit of a F-111 has certainly seen, probably studied, and possibly even flown.
In WWI, there wasn’t anything remotely like an F-111.
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