# Could an African-American get elected POTUS? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2006, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597 "2006-03-16T14:42:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![EEMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@EEMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EEMan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/41 "2006-03-16T16:55:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s fairly common knowledge. I have read the history of the post-1968 transformation of the Republican Party (including the migration of racist/conservative whites from the Democrats to the Republicans) in many books, including the following: > > _The Emerging Democratic Majority_ by John Judis and Ruy Teixeira – [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743254783/sr=8-1/qid=1142527505/ref=pd\_bbs\_1/002-2914095-6024022?\_encoding=UTF8](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743254783/sr=8-1/qid=1142527505/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2914095-6024022?%5Fencoding=UTF8) > > _Up from Conservatism_ by Michael Lind – [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684831864/qid=1142527532/sr=2-1/ref=pd\_bbs\_b\_2\_1/002-2914095-6024022?s=books&v=glance&n=283155](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684831864/qid=1142527532/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-2914095-6024022?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) It is fairly common knowledge (meaning of majority view) that evolution is not as likely as creation; ‘common knowledge’ has very little to do with fact. I have not read either of those books, and can not speak to them directly; however the world has changed since '68. I’m aware of NO study that shows racism is more previlant in one party over the other (heck the democrats have a ‘reformed’ Grand pooba of the KKK in office now; not to mention the ‘black panthers’ are largely democrat) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/42 "2006-03-16T17:11:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **Republican** racism is no canard. In the years following 1968, the party constituencies reshuffled themselves. Practically everybody (North and South) who had voted for Wallace in '68 ultimately settled down in the Republican Party, making it what it is today. No, that made it what it was in '68. Wallace changed. It is unreasonable to believe that all the others (those who’ve survived to a very old age) are stone jars with immutable inscriptions. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/43 "2006-03-16T17:17:01Z")
[hijack] A note: He did not start the Vietnam War. He started our involvement in Vietnam. We could have backed out of it at that point. Kennedy essentially started the War part of things. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/44 "2006-03-16T17:27:12Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [hijack] > A note: He did not start the Vietnam War. He started our involvement in Vietnam. We could have backed out of it at that point. Kennedy essentially started the War part of things. > > [/hijack] That would still be my opinion from the reading provided, but I understand that he is responsible for getting us involved. Jim ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/45 "2006-03-16T18:31:05Z")
> [@EEMan](#): > > It is fairly common knowledge (meaning of majority view) that evolution is not as likely as creation; ‘common knowledge’ has very little to do with fact. I have not read either of those books, and can not speak to them directly; however the world has changed since '68. I’m aware of NO study that shows racism is more previlant in one party over the other (heck the democrats have a ‘reformed’ Grand pooba of the KKK in office now; not to mention the ‘black panthers’ are largely democrat) Who are these “black panthers”? I’m not saying the Republican Party is dominated by white supremacists. I’m saying: 1. There are still a lot of white Americans who are deeply prejudiced against nonwhites and particularly against African-Americans… 2. Most of them vote Republican, for the same reason most blacks vote Democrat – i.e., not because they’re really confident that party represents their views/interests, but because they’re sure the other party doesn’t. 3. As with black Democrats, that doesn’t mean they dominate the party, but it does mean they are a constituency to be reckoned with, at least in the primaries. IOW, no chance for Condi. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/46 "2006-03-16T18:41:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 1. There are still a lot of white Americans who are deeply prejudiced against nonwhites and particularly against African-Americans. Regarding which, see this old thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243699](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243699) Heck, according to discussion in the related thread “Could a Jew get elected POTUS?” there are still some Americans who are prejucided against non-Anglo-Saxon whites – Jews, Irish, Italians. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/47 "2006-03-16T18:53:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Regarding which, see this old thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243699](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243699) > > Heck, according to discussion in the related thread “Could a Jew get elected POTUS?” there are still some Americans who are prejucided against non-Anglo-Saxon whites – Jews, Irish, Italians. I seriously wonder how limiting be an Italian, Catholic from NYC will be for Rudy Giuliani. Jim ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/48 "2006-03-16T18:56:48Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > I seriously wonder how limiting be an Italian, Catholic from NYC will be for Rudy Giuliani. > > Jim Actually, the most limiting part of that is probably “NYC.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/49 "2006-03-16T18:57:56Z")
Those in denial of southern GOP racism, which party’s presidential candidates have traditionally made appearances at Bob Jones University? [The Old Gipper himself](http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,399921,00.html) was pretty adept at sending out the signals. > [@](#): > > As a young congressman, Lott was among those who urged Reagan to deliver his first major campaign speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi, where three civil rights workers were murdered in one of the 1960s’ ugliest cases of racist violence. It was a ringing declaration of his support for “states’ rights” — a code word for resistance to black advances clearly understood by white Southern voters. As the Time author Jack White sums it up: > [@](#): > > Republican leaders and their apologists tend to go into a frenzy of denial when members of the liberal media cabal bring up these inconvenient facts. It’s that lack of candor, of course, that presents the biggest obstacle to George W. Bush’s commendable and long overdue campaign to persuade more African-Americans to defect from the Democrats to the Republicans. It’s doomed to fail until the GOP fesses up its past addiction to race-baiting, and makes a sincere attempt to kick the habit. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/50 "2006-03-16T19:02:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, the most limiting part of that is probably “NYC.” I am very much afraid you are right. Of course [our greatest President](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt#Childhood_and_education) was from **“The City”**. Jim {Did I mention I was a Green, liberal leaning, Hawk of a Republican} ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/51 "2006-03-16T20:12:13Z")
I’ve never seen as much bigotry as I saw in Minnesota. Did I just happen to stumble upon the only pocket of Republicans in the state? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/52 "2006-03-16T20:20:58Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’ve never seen as much bigotry as I saw in Minnesota. Did I just happen to stumble upon the only pocket of Republicans in the state? Maybe. What form of bigotry did you observe? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/53 "2006-03-16T20:23:44Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’ve never seen as much bigotry as I saw in Minnesota. Did I just happen to stumble upon the only pocket of Republicans in the state? Depends on what part of the state you were in. It’s really only the Twin Cities that are especially liberal. The rural parts of the state are quite conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/54 "2006-03-16T20:33:47Z")
I was in Minneapolis. Well, Apple Valley to be exact. The form of bigotry was as I described before: nothing overt; just subtle references about the “mixed neighborhoods” and so forth. Is everything down there like Atlanta? Are there any nice Scandanavian areas? Weren’t you the ones who started all this bussing mess? The neighborhood was white, the hockey games were white, the house itself was white — even the damn ground was white. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/55 "2006-03-16T20:48:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [The Old Gipper himself](http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,399921,00.html) was pretty adept at sending out the signals. Got anything a little more like evidence? I left my secret decoder ring in my other pants, and this is a bit too much like seeing the Blessed Virgin Mary in the tortilla to be falsifiable. **Lib** - The Twin Cities metro area is mostly Democratic, so if you saw racism in Apple Valley, you may not have been seeing Republicans. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/56 "2006-03-16T20:56:11Z")
Even if we assume a significant level of residual White racism in the south\*, the dsicussion so far has overlooked the fact that Billy-Bob Redneck is going to respond very different to a Colin Powell, a Condi Rice or a JC Watts, than he is to a Maxine Waters, a Jesse Jackson or an Al Sharpton. Conservative Black Republicans are usually completely assimilated into “White culture”, which I think makes a \*\*big \*\*difference. \*which I don’t assume, but for the sake for argument lets say there is. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/57 "2006-03-16T21:07:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Lib** - The Twin Cities metro area is mostly Democratic, so if you saw racism in Apple Valley, you may not have been seeing Republicans. They were Democrats. But I’ve seen it in Southern Republicans too. There is a difference in how the bigotry of the North versus the South comes across to me. Southern bigotry seems rooted in stubbornness: this area was settled by whites, and now the blacks are takin’ over. Northern bigotry seems rooted in snobbishness: I have nothing against those people, I just wish they’d keep their lawns up. I just don’t like the stereotype of a South overrun by racism. It simply isn’t. Certainly no more than the North. And on preview, I agree with John Mace. Blacks have been assimilated. Mexican is the new black. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/58 "2006-03-16T21:17:23Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > . . . Billy-Bob Redneck is going to respond very different to a Colin Powell, a Condi Rice or a JC Watts, than he is to a Maxine Waters, a Jesse Jackson or an Al Sharpton. I very much doubt that is true; but I know of no studies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/59 "2006-03-16T21:22:05Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > And on preview, I agree with John Mace. Blacks have been assimilated. Only some of them (which is all **John** was saying). And those – a minority within a minority – risk being cursed as “oreos” by other blacks. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597/60 "2006-03-16T21:29:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I very much doubt that is true; but I know of no studies. Hey, we’re all shooting from the hip here, so don’t pretent that there are “studies” supporting your point of view. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-african-american-get-elected-potus/348597.md?page=4)