# Could an American fighter plane blow up a locomotive in WWII? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 17, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128 "2012-02-17T12:57:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/41 "2012-02-19T00:32:15Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. And Me-262s are somewhat bigger than two meters. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/42 "2012-02-19T00:40:45Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [Gun camera footage of boilers going up](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYTaddev6KQ) I’m not going for a political potshot, but does the plane visible at 1:06 actually have “Halliburton” written on its fuselage? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Dufus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c77e96/32.png) [@Dufus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dufus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/43 "2012-02-19T00:50:22Z")
[totally off subject] In WW2 footage, you can hear the train going chuga chuga chuga chuga (over the noise of the airplane engine) and the guns going tatatatatatat, even though gun cameras didn’t have microphones. I know Hollywood does the best they can do shape us into the goyim they want us to be, but sheesh, my butt starts getting sore after awhile. [/totally off subject] ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/44 "2012-02-19T01:03:57Z")
In the Red Tails clips, the engine seemed to tumble in a nose down, ass up type flip. If the front wheels were damaged to the point of failure and the front of the engine went down, would this be merely a train wreck were all hell breaks loose? If so, that appears more plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/45 "2012-02-19T01:32:52Z")
> [@Fish\_Cheer](#): > > I’m not going for a political potshot, but does the plane visible at 1:06 actually have “Halliburton” written on its fuselage? :eek: It does! It says, “Halliburton’s,” but I can’t read the word underneath. My brain keeps filling it in with, “Hell,” but there really isn’t enough to make out. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/46 "2012-02-19T04:39:43Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And downing a Me-262? Sorry but weren’t those downed mainly at take-off and landing? According to the History Channel “Dogfights” show link from a post in the Redtails thread, Tuskegee Airmen did shoot down Me-262s. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/47 "2012-02-19T04:59:46Z")
Hell, there have been accounts of the _aerial gunners on the bombers_ shooting down 262s, though not very often. There’s a book by Gerald Astor, “The Mighty Eighth”, that described the abrupt end of a jet pilot’s flying career when he made the mistake of approaching a formation of 100+ bombers from the six-o’clock position, immediately drawing the attention of every tail and turret gunner present, while also presenting them the easiest possible target (zero deflection, and relatively slow closing speed) The 262’s were fast. They weren’t bullet-proof. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/48 "2012-02-19T05:22:11Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > I am surprised. So surprised I did some digging. All the references I found confirm fire tube. It seems to me that it would be impractical to build such large boilers as fire tube requiring a huge pressure vessel. Water tube boilers can use small pipes easy to build to withstand high pressures. The large outer shell can then be relatively flimsy only needing to withstand the heat of the fire. > > So I doubt the locomotive boilers were overbuilt enough to take multiple 50 cal punctures. The limit on a fire tube boiler is the diameter. The larger the diameter the thicker the shell. Where increasing the lenght requires no increase in shell thickness. On afire tube boiler it is easier to make it really long but with a water tube boiler increasing the size normally means increasing its height or with. As for pratical pressures fire tube max is around 250 to 300 psi, a water tube about 1200 psi. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/49 "2012-02-19T18:20:39Z")
Wish I would have paid more attention to some of this stuff way back when we lived in Dearborn and had a family pass to the Henry Ford Museum. ---
**Author:** ![notsoheavyd3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85e7bf/32.png) [@notsoheavyd3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notsoheavyd3)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/50 "2012-02-19T18:52:49Z")
So in the movie Red Tails did they make it a point that the train fired first? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/51 "2012-02-20T03:23:13Z")
> [@notsoheavyd3](#): > > So in the movie Red Tails did they make it a point that the train fired first? 😃 Actually, it did fire first, but only after the American pilots dove in after it. It’d be pretty stupid for the train to let four fighter planes get the first shot in. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KingOfTheJungle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c5a1d2/32.png) [@KingOfTheJungle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KingOfTheJungle)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/52 "2021-07-06T15:16:36Z")
Locomotives that were underway and had their boilers on and were making steam pressure (how they moved… steam locomotion) were probably one of the most dangerous things you could hit with a high velocity piece of steel AKA a 50 cal bullet. The incredible amount of steam pressure created in the boilers of a locomotive required to turn the driveshaft and move a many hundred ton train were immense. I don’t know if anyone knows how dangerous steam pressure can be, but one of the largest and most powerful steam pressure driven systems is a train. Piercing the side of the boiler tank with a bullet or several would be catastrophic. To the train engineer riding in the engine car right next to the boiler it would be like sitting on a 2000 bomb that was detonated. Go to YouTube and search WW2 ground attack gun cam footage or specifically train strafing attacks in WW2. Tell me why you see in common with all of the successful attack runs on the engine at the front of the train. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/53 "2021-07-06T17:18:49Z")
It was noted in one of the videos that the engineers would dump the pressure when they came under attack. They claim that is what you are seeing with the sudden release of steam. At least, in some of the video. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/54 "2021-07-06T19:33:02Z")
My grandfather flew Tempest V fighters towards the end of the war, and many of his missions were train hunting. Certainly according to him the effect of the plane’s guns on trains would be quite spectacular. (The Tempest carried 20mm cannons, not the .50cal machine guns most American fighters used, but same effect.) ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/55 "2021-07-06T20:55:50Z")
A steam tractor blew up at the Medina County, Ohio fairgrounds near me 20 years ago. It killed 4 people and injured 50. A locomotive boiler is much larger then a steam tractor’s. [https://old.post-gazette.com/regionstate/20010730fairexplosionreg2.asp](https://old.post-gazette.com/regionstate/20010730fairexplosionreg2.asp) ---
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/56 "2021-07-07T16:02:10Z")
> [@KingOfTheJungle](#): > > I don’t know if anyone knows how dangerous steam pressure can be, but one of the largest and most powerful steam pressure driven systems is a train It was shocking to me ( us ) upon finding this out during a historical society lecture ( railroad history ) 200 to 300 PSI of _anything_ suddenly vented is scary enough. The effect is magnified with steam because it expands to near 1600 times its original volume. Then there is another huge factor: The rest of the water in the boiler being up to 700 degrees F is only still in a liquid state due to the pressure inside the boiler making it so. Once that boiler is vented to atmospheric, all of that extremely hot water will itself instantly turn into steam, thus magnifying all the other effects. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/57 "2021-07-07T18:41:38Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > A steam tractor blew up at the Medina County, Ohio fairgrounds near me 20 years ago. It killed 4 people and injured 50. A locomotive boiler is much larger then a steam tractor’s. > > [https://old.post-gazette.com/regionstate/20010730fairexplosionreg2.asp](https://old.post-gazette.com/regionstate/20010730fairexplosionreg2.asp) - And the fair was only delayed by 2 hours?? 😲 ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/58 "2021-07-07T21:02:18Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > And the fair was only delayed by 2 hours?? Well, 2 hours late on the next day. “Ohio - tough as all get out. And don’t delay our county fairs, dammit.” The guy who had the tractor displayed also drove the iron wheeled beast down the freshly paved road and dug deep grooves in the highway. The sheriff was trying to find the culprit when she blew. I think he got a ticket posthumously. This accident brought about a complete review of steam engine regulations in Ohio and beyond. The stay bolts were corroded to like 25% of the original diameter. The connections to the boiler shell were corroded. It was a time bomb. Had people been standing around it a lot more would have died. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/59 "2021-07-07T22:03:21Z")
In addition to machine guns, WWII fighters used rocket fire to attack trains and other targets after D-Day. From Wikipedia: “HVAR could penetrate 4 ft (1.2 m) of reinforced concrete and was used to sink transports, knock out pillboxes and AA gun emplacements, blow up ammo and oil-storage dumps, and destroy tanks, locomotives, and bunkers.” > **[High Velocity Aircraft Rocket](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Velocity_Aircraft_Rocket)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > The High Velocity Aircraft Rocket, or HVAR, also known by the nickname Holy Moses, was an American unguided rocket developed during World War II to attack targets on the ground from aircraft. It saw extensive use during both World War II and the Korean War. > The HVAR was designed by engineers at Caltech during World War II as an improvement on the 5-Inch Forward Firing Aircraft Rocket (FFAR), which had a 5-inch (127 mm) diameter warhead but an und... ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128/60 "2021-07-15T02:48:28Z")
B-25 medium bombers in the Pacific could be armed with up to FOURTEEN forward firing .50 cal machine guns. Other versions could have 10 mgs, a 75mm cannon, eight 5in. rockets and 3,000 lbs. of bombs. In a low level strafing attack, there were incidents where cargo ships and near destroyer sized vessels were effectively cut in two. The .50 cal bullets were generally API and API-T (armor piercing incendiary 4 rounds with every 5th in the belt having a tracer element). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-an-american-fighter-plane-blow-up-a-locomotive-in-wwii/613128.md?page=2)