# Could and would Trump Sr. pardon Trump Jr. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 11, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001 "2017-07-11T15:00:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/1 "2017-07-11T15:00:57Z")
Let’s say the feds filed criminal charges against Donald Trump Jr. in connection with him meeting the Russian lawyer and seeking out the dirt on Clinton. Could Donald Sr. issue a pardon? Would he? What would be the political ramifications? Would this be the scandal that broke the camel’s back, so to speak, or would it be just another thing the Republicans would handwave away and not give a shit about? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/2 "2017-07-11T15:09:02Z")
Of course he could. Just out of curiosity, why do you think he might not be able to? Would he? Probably. He doesn’t care what people think about him, and his base of supporters will probably think the charges were politically motivated anyway. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/3 "2017-07-11T15:13:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just out of curiosity, why do you think he might not be able to? Just thought there might be some sort of ethics rule preventing it, since he’s family. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/4 "2017-07-11T15:15:47Z")
What’s illegal about meeting with someone who says they have dirt on your opponent in a campaign? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/5 "2017-07-11T15:15:40Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Just thought there might be some sort of ethical provision preventing it since he’s the guy’s son. The Trumps are immune from ethical provisions. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/6 "2017-07-11T15:26:52Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > What’s illegal about meeting with someone who says they have dirt on your opponent in a campaign? They were told the Russian Government was behind it. Then they lied and denied the meeting ever took place. Maybe legal, maybe not. Time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/7 "2017-07-11T15:29:42Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Just thought there might be some sort of ethics rule preventing it, since he’s family. That’s so cute! Do it again! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/8 "2017-07-11T15:44:41Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > What’s illegal about meeting with someone who says they have dirt on your opponent in a campaign? Let’s face it-_Nothing_ is really illegal if you leave out enough details, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/9 "2017-07-11T15:45:56Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > They were told the Russian Government was behind it. Then they lied and denied the meeting ever took place. Maybe legal, maybe not. Time will tell. Still where’s the crime, even if it was directly from the Russian government, which hasn’t been proven? Pretty sure bribing a foreign official is a crime. But receiving information? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/10 "2017-07-11T15:46:32Z")
> [@procrustus](#): > > they were told the russian government was behind it. Then they lied and denied the meeting ever took place. Maybe legal, maybe not. Time will tell. But Bill Clinton lied about having teh sexorz! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/11 "2017-07-11T15:51:42Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Still where’s the crime, even if it was directly from the Russian government, which hasn’t been proven? Pretty sure bribing a foreign official is a crime. But receiving information? According to [this article](https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/15950590/donald-trump-jr-new-york-times-illegal): > [@](#): > > “The law states that no person shall knowingly solicit or accept from a foreign national any contribution to a campaign of an item of value,” explains Ryan Goodman, a former Defense Department special counsel and current editor of the legal site Just Security. “There is now a clear case that Donald Trump Jr. has met all the elements of the law, which is a criminally enforced federal statute.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/12 "2017-07-11T16:04:30Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > What’s illegal about meeting with someone who says they have dirt on your opponent in a campaign? As a government official, Trump is required to report all contacts with foreign representatives. He did not report his meetings with the Russians. So even if his meetings were completely innocent, he still broke the law by keeping them secret. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/13 "2017-07-11T16:08:07Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > What’s illegal about meeting with someone who says they have dirt on your opponent in a campaign? This certainly seems to be the Republican talking point of the day. Which is fair enough, I guess, since it is the last thing they have left. They’ve tried “the meeting was only about orphan babies”, but that only lasted 8 hours or so. Then there was “I had no idea who I was meeting”, but that was disproven with an actual email to Trump Jr. Now we’re down to how it can not be actually illegal to go to a meeting and solicit a foreign agent to give you information about your political opponent that was obtained in unknown ways. And then lie about the meeting. Maybe you should try the “She was just an innocent Russian lady trying to help orphans, and had nothing, NOTHING to do with the Russian government” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/14 "2017-07-11T16:11:36Z")
I believe Laurence Tribe knows more about the law than I. It isn’t that exclusive a club, but he said “Attempted theft of a presidential election in collusion w/ Putin is a serious felony and a high crime against the state.” It doesn’t matter if he got information or not. From Richard Painter, former ethics lawyer for George W. Bush: “If he attempted to get illegally stolen private information from the Russians it was illegal for him to attempt to do so. Just like buying stolen goods from a known fence.” Lock him up! ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/15 "2017-07-11T16:12:41Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > According to [this article](https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/15950590/donald-trump-jr-new-york-times-illegal): That’s a bit of a stretch… ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/16 "2017-07-11T16:14:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As a government official, Trump is required to report all contacts with foreign representatives. He did not report his meetings with the Russians. So even if his meetings were completely innocent, he still broke the law by keeping them secret. Donald Trump Jr. was not a government official and is still isn’t, to my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/17 "2017-07-11T16:15:38Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I believe Laurence Tribe knows more about the law than I. It isn’t that exclusive a club, but he said “Attempted theft of a presidential election in collusion w/ Putin is a serious felony and a high crime against the state.” It doesn’t matter if he got information or not. > > From Richard Painter, former ethics lawyer for George W. Bush: “If he attempted to get illegally stolen private information from the Russians it was illegal for him to attempt to do so. Just like buying stolen goods from a known fence.” > > Lock him up! Agreed. To the question about pardons… \*\*John Mace \*\*got it in the first reply. Nothing would stop Trump from issuing a pardon. And he probably would. And he would not give a shit, since his approval rate would just drop from 40% to 35%. I wonder a couple of things though… 1. Can Trump pro-actively pardon Trump Jr. before a trial? Or indeed before charges are even filed? 2. Can Trump now issue a blanket pardon to “anyone who at any time did anything illegal with any foreign power to help me win the election” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/18 "2017-07-11T16:17:46Z")
Yes, the President can issue blanket pardons against federal prosecution for any action at any time up to the present. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/19 "2017-07-11T16:18:34Z")
Yes, he can and very well might proactively pardon everyone (except, perhaps, himself). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/20 "2017-07-11T16:21:30Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Yes, he can and very well might proactively pardon everyone (except, perhaps, himself). Not that he wouldn’t be brazen enough to try…and that a (no longer surprising) number of Conservatives would back him up. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001.md?page=2)