# Could and would Trump Sr. pardon Trump Jr. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 11, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001 "2017-07-11T15:00:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/341 "2017-07-15T20:51:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Could you stop hinting that I’m making BBQ Pit statements? I have been posting here more than a decade longer than you so I think I got a handle on the rules, thanks. I wasn’t thinking of you as being prone to making Pit-like statements when I wrote that post. Instead, I was taking the post of yours to which I was replying as being a bit of a tease and/or snark about some of my more formally-worded remarks: [QUOTE=CarnalK] Now that will have been a not unlikely solid basis for a discussion. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/342 "2017-07-15T21:42:11Z")
You may be relieved to know that I was, in fact, snarking on your phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/343 "2017-07-15T22:52:37Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You may be relieved to know that I was, in fact, snarking on your phrasing. As I said, that’s what I assumed. How you get from there to an accusation about me supposedly claiming that you do Pit-style posting here, is obscure. At any rate, I’d suggest that any further such accusations you feel inspired to make belong in the Pit itself. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/344 "2017-07-15T23:00:33Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > As I said, that’s what I assumed. How you get from there to an accusation about me supposedly claiming that you do Pit-style posting here, is obscure. > > At any rate, I’d suggest that any further such accusations you feel inspired to make belong in the Pit itself. Here’s an alternative suggestion: why don’t you worry about what you’re doing and I’ll worry about what I’m doing. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/345 "2017-07-16T15:09:29Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Seems as though both are possible: that what he’s said under oath already could trip him up, and/or that his upcoming testimony could prove to be a problem for him. I’m no expert on the utterances of Don Jr., either, by the way. Just seems like a safe bet that at least one of his oaths will turn out to have been perjurious. When has Don Jr. previously made any statements under oath about Russia, the election, etc? He’s never been a government official, so he’s not had to fill out a disclosure statement like his brother-in-law, Kushner. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/346 "2017-07-16T15:37:32Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > When has Don Jr. previously made any statements under oath about Russia, the election, etc? He’s never been a government official, so he’s not had to fill out a disclosure statement like his brother-in-law, Kushner. Yes, I’m interested in that as well. If he’s been interviewed by the FBI, then “under oath” isn’t at play, but I’m also wondering if he is even yet vulnerable to being prosecuted for anything he has said to anyone to date. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/347 "2017-07-16T17:55:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, I’m interested in that as well. If he’s been interviewed by the FBI, then “under oath” isn’t at play, but I’m also wondering if he is even yet vulnerable to being prosecuted for anything he has said to anyone to date. Why do you think he hired a lawyer (very likely paid for by Trump’s re-election campaign, btw)? They prove intent for possible FEC statute violations at the very least. (Note: I include his emails as ‘statements.’) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/348 "2017-07-16T18:01:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Why do you think he hired a lawyer (very likely paid for by Trump’s re-election campaign, btw)? They prove intent for possible FEC statute violations at the very least. (Note: I include his emails as ‘statements.’) No, they don’t, for the reasons I discussed earlier in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/349 "2017-07-16T18:08:47Z")
Trump’s lawyer is [blaming the Secret Service](http://www.businessinsider.com/jay-sekulow-secret-service-donald-trump-jr-2017-7) for not stopping Donald Jr. from colluding with Russians. One problem. DJR was not under Secret Service protection at the time. So, either: 1. This excuse is even more bullshit that it obviously is as Secret Service would be entirely unaware of the meeting or 2. Someone under Secret Service protection WAS at the meeting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/350 "2017-07-16T18:13:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Why do you think he hired a lawyer (very likely paid for by Trump’s re-election campaign, btw)? Because he’s not a complete moron. Anyone in his situation would be an idiot NOT to hire a lawyer, because of what he faces going forward. He will be in situations very soon where he will be speaking under oath, even if he wasn’t in the past. Anyway, the question still stands: Has Trump Jr been under oath at any time concerning “the Russia thing” to date? For me, it’s an honest question. I honestly don’t know, and am not playing “gotcha”. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/351 "2017-07-16T20:02:18Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Here’s an alternative suggestion: why don’t you worry about what you’re doing and I’ll worry about what I’m doing. I’ve never worried about what you are doing. Therefore I’m not in a position to stop worrying about what you are doing. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Trump’s lawyer is [blaming the Secret Service](http://www.businessinsider.com/jay-sekulow-secret-service-donald-trump-jr-2017-7) for not stopping Donald Jr. from colluding with Russians. One problem. DJR was not under Secret Service protection at the time. So, either: > > 1. This excuse is even more bullshit that it obviously is as Secret Service would be entirely unaware of the meeting or > 2. Someone under Secret Service protection WAS at the meeting. This seems like a stupid thing to “leak” as a tactic; there’s no advantage for Trump in creating speculation about Trump’s presence at that meeting. Therefore it may be a genuine nugget of actual information: > [@](#): > > Although he claimed that the president did not know about or participate in the meeting — which was attended by Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort — Sekulow suggested on ABC’s This Week that it could not have been really bad or else the agents would have stopped it. > “I wondered why the Secret Service, if this was nefarious, why did the Secret Service allow these people in?” Sekulow told ABC’s Jonathan Karl. > > … ,” the Secret Service’s protection detail is to provide for the physical safety of protectees. It is unclear why Sekulow would think their job would include stopping them from “nefarious” activities or ensuring the candidate or his team does not violate campaign finance laws. [https://thinkprogress.org/did-donald-trumps-lawyer-accidentally-make-a-huge-confession-about-the-meeting-with-the-russian-49469e9226ae](https://thinkprogress.org/did-donald-trumps-lawyer-accidentally-make-a-huge-confession-about-the-meeting-with-the-russian-49469e9226ae) The likeliest explanation for Sekulow making these remarks is that Sekulow is not particularly bright, and sincerely believed that he had come up with a devastating rebuttal to the 'Don Jr.‘s & Kushner’s improper conduct’ storyline currently attached to the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/352 "2017-07-16T21:12:22Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Trump’s lawyer is [blaming the Secret Service](http://www.businessinsider.com/jay-sekulow-secret-service-donald-trump-jr-2017-7) for not stopping Donald Jr. from colluding with Russians. Your cite is not letting me see it unless I turn off ad-block, which I don’t want to do. Can you quote the section you are talking about? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/353 "2017-07-16T21:27:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Your cite is not letting me see it unless I turn off ad-block, which I don’t want to do. Can you quote the section you are talking about? Here. ya go. > [@](#): > > In an interview on ABC’s “This Week,” Jay Sekulow argued that Trump Jr.'s meeting with the lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, and Russian-American lobbyist Rinat Akhmetshin was innocent because if it weren’t, the Secret Service would not have let the guests meet with top members of the Trump campaign. > > “I wonder why the Secret Service — if this was nefarious — why the Secret Service allowed these people in?” Sekulow said. “The president had Secret Service protection at that point, and that raised a question with me.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/354 "2017-07-16T21:37:52Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Here. ya go. OK, thanks. But that’s not “blaming the SS”. Clearly, the lawyer thinks those folks were not nefarious, so there would be no reason for the SS not to let them in. He would only have blamed them if he was accepting the idea that the Russians were nefarious. Still a weak and pathetic argument, but he’s not “blaming the Secret Service”, and yeah, we don’t even know if the SS was involved in the meeting in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/355 "2017-07-16T21:48:37Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I’ve never worried about what you are doing. Therefore I’m not in a position to stop worrying about what you are doing. “An object at rest _cannot be stopped!_” - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/356 "2017-07-16T22:04:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, thanks. But that’s not “blaming the SS”. Clearly, the lawyer thinks those folks were not nefarious, so there would be no reason for the SS not to let them in. He would only have blamed them if he was accepting the idea that the Russians were nefarious. > > Still a weak and pathetic argument, but he’s not “blaming the Secret Service”, and yeah, we don’t even know if the SS was involved in the meeting in the first place. Surely that’s the point: IF the SS was involved, then the lawyer just revealed that Trump (Senior) attended the meeting. (No one else in attendance was at that time a protectee of the SS.) > [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > “An object at rest _cannot be stopped!_” - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight Indubitably. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/357 "2017-07-16T22:58:28Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Surely that’s the point: IF the SS was involved, then the lawyer just revealed that Trump (Senior) attended the meeting. (No one else in attendance was at that time a protectee of the SS.) The USSS denies having vetted Mini-Don for the meeting. The actual wording of their denial is interesting, though. _““Donald Trump, Jr. was not a protectee of the USSS in June, 2016. Thus we would not have screened anyone he was meeting with at that time,” the statement said.”_ [Reuters article](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN1A10Q9) They didn’t actually say they didn’t screen, full-stop. Just that they didn’t screen on behalf of Mini-Don. The article also makes it clear they screen only for physical safety, not for any other purpose. I’m sure it’s nothing. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/358 "2017-07-16T23:11:42Z")
Who would have attended the meeting requiring USSS protection? Odd comment for Trump’s lawyer to make. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/359 "2017-07-16T23:16:14Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The likeliest explanation for Sekulow making these remarks is that Sekulow is not particularly bright, and sincerely believed that he had come up with a devastating rebuttal to the 'Don Jr.‘s & Kushner’s improper conduct’ storyline currently attached to the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting. Believe me, I think this is the most likely scenario too. Just funny that the excuse is so poor that the implication of the excuse, that Trump was at the meeting, is worse than the original issue. Also, no one believes Trump didn’t know about this meeting, right? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/360 "2017-07-17T00:29:45Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Believe me, I think this is the most likely scenario too. Just funny that the excuse is so poor that the implication of the excuse, that Trump was at the meeting, is worse than the original issue. > > Also, no one believes Trump didn’t know about this meeting, right? Trump had a reputation as a micro-manager long before this meeting became news. His adult children knew better than to do anything without his input and approval: > [@](#): > > … Two people who participated in an inspection of the Washington hotel with Trump shortly before he announced his candidacy in June 2015 remember the businessman growing incensed over a detail: the restoration of exterior windows. > > Trump said the windows looked terrible, though one of the sources recounting the story said there didn’t seem to be anything obviously wrong with them. He demanded the contractor not be paid but was told the work had been done free in the hopes of getting more business from the Trumps, according to the source. > > That source and two others on the project also r **ecalled hearing Ivanka say she needed her father’s approval before signing off on some decisions she wanted to make on the project. The sources said it was not uncommon for her to say she would “run this by my father” or "check with New York.**" [Trump's Obsessive Micromanagement Could Be a Major Liability As President - Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/r-separation-anxiety-trumps-management-style-poses-challenges-in-oval-office-2016-12) That story came out in 2016; similar stories aren’t hard to find. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001.md?page=19)