# Could and would Trump Sr. pardon Trump Jr. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 11, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001 "2017-07-11T15:00:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/121 "2017-07-12T15:51:42Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Can you and others explain why anything to do with security clearance is relevant to the case of Donald Trump Jr. who has none? It may not matter in the idea that Jr had not ‘withheld info on a clearance form’ - but he still has to answer on the rest of the exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/122 "2017-07-12T15:54:18Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > … and that the next day after submitting it he “submitted supplemental information stating that he had had ‘numerous contacts with foreign officials’ about which he would be happy to provide additional information.” So you’re saying: colluding with representatives of foreign governments isn’t a problem for retaining security clearance, so long as you disclose the meeting? Huh. I would have thought the demonstrated lack of judgment would be the bigger problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/123 "2017-07-12T15:55:30Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > “Opposition intel” is. Information about criminal misdeeds of your opponent isn’t. > > Let’s do a thought experiment to demonstrate. Let’s say someone (US citizen) contributed the max to a candidate ($2700). Then that someone finds out that the opponent of the candidate committed a crime. With proof. He comes to the candidate’s campaign and offers the proof. > > The campaign checks and sees that the person has already contributed the maximum to the campaign. So - are they obligated to reject his “contribution”? I’m not sure. 52 USC § 30116 does not contain the “thing of value” clause; so far as I can see, it just regulates cash contributions. If I’m a brilliant person who bills my time at $1000 per hour, and if I go to work on a volunteer basis to elect Pauline Pureheart to the US Senate, it seems clear I don’t have to stop working after three hours. Is there some other statutory authority for your question besides § 30116 ? Am I misreading § 30116 ? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/124 "2017-07-12T15:56:54Z")
> [@simster](#): > > It may not matter in the idea that Jr had not ‘withheld info on a clearance form’ - but he still has to answer on the rest of the exchange. Answer for the violation of what law? How does his exchange violate the law? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/125 "2017-07-12T15:57:08Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So you’re saying: colluding with representatives of foreign governments isn’t a problem for retaining security clearance, so long as you disclose the meeting? Huh. I would have thought the demonstrated lack of judgment would be the bigger problem. Even more so - forgetting 1 meeting ot of alot of similar meetings - not a big deal - those things happen especially to those that work in a global environment. Leaving the entire section blank (or marking it N/A as required by the form) and then only disclosing information once called on it ? Thats a huge red flag. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/126 "2017-07-12T15:59:33Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Same reason firing Comey was detrimental. It looks guilty as hell. If he’s pardoning anyone we are way past the point when “looking guilty” is the issue. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/127 "2017-07-12T15:59:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Answer for the violation of what law? How does his exchange violate the law? not for me to say - nor am I intending to suggest ‘strongly’ that it did violiate the law - but it clearly raises questions that must be answered wrt to the entire ‘russians meddling investigation’ and what (if any) knowledge and coordination that the trump team had with it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/128 "2017-07-12T16:00:11Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Even more so - > > forgetting 1 meeting ot of alot of similar meetings - not a big deal - those things happen especially to those that work in a global environment. > > Leaving the entire section blank (or marking it N/A as required by the form) and then only disclosing information once called on it ? Thats a huge red flag. A huge red flag for someone without a clearance? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/129 "2017-07-12T16:02:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Answer for the violation of what law? How does his exchange violate the law? You are aware that the person under discussion is Donald Trump Jr., not Kushner, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/130 "2017-07-12T16:03:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A huge red flag for someone without a clearance? Kushner has clearance. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/131 "2017-07-12T16:04:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A huge red flag for someone without a clearance? A huge red flag during the clearance process itself. (this is now about Kushner and not Trump Jr. specifically - and is even more generically abot the clearance process). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/132 "2017-07-12T16:11:17Z")
> [@simster](#): > > A huge red flag during the clearance process itself. (this is now about Kushner and not Trump Jr. specifically - and is even more generically abot the clearance process). Got it. Well, I’m certainly prepared to agree that Kushner’s in red flag territory for failure to disclose. Don Jr, with no clearance, seems a different story. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/133 "2017-07-12T16:21:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m not sure. 52 USC § 30116 does not contain the “thing of value” clause; so far as I can see, it just regulates cash contributions. [11 CFR § 100.52 - Gift, subscription, loan, advance or deposit of money. | Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (e-CFR) | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/100.52) - at the top. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/134 "2017-07-12T16:41:33Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Are you proud that you are defending the president’s son, who met with a Russian lawyer during the election in order to gain information from the Russian government to help his campaign? I am quite comfortable defending the distinction between “legal” and “illegal” even for the President’s son. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/135 "2017-07-12T16:44:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m not sure. 52 USC § 30116 does not contain the “thing of value” clause; so far as I can see, it just regulates cash contributions. > > If I’m a brilliant person who bills my time at $1000 per hour, and if I go to work on a volunteer basis to elect Pauline Pureheart to the US Senate, it seems clear I don’t have to stop working after three hours. > > Is there some other statutory authority for your question besides § 30116 ? Am I misreading § 30116 ? From [§ 110.20 - Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (52 U.S.C. 30121, 36 U.S.C. 510)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20), perhaps? Adding your comment earlier about information being a thing of value, it certainly seems like Junior could be in violation of section B, which says > [@](#): > > A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly [sic] promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election. I admit to not being an attorney (but bear in mind that I _did_ apply to law school. Twice), so there may be nuances and interpretations and distinctions I’m unaware of, but a layman read of that link seems like it applies, but I may be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/136 "2017-07-12T16:53:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Got it. Well, I’m certainly prepared to agree that Kushner’s in red flag territory for failure to disclose. Don Jr, with no clearance, seems a different story. He **did** disclose according to an earlier post, although a day later. Presuming that is accurate, depending on the instructions given it could be a big no-no (“disclose everything all at once”) or may be acceptable (“keep on giving us the information as soon as you make a detailed and accurate description of each head”) or in between (“disclose everything everything at once”, but do make corrections with explanations"). You would agree that what has been released thus far is hardly conclusive? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/137 "2017-07-12T17:11:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > He **did** disclose according to an earlier post, although a day later. Presuming that is accurate, depending on the instructions given it could be a big no-no (“disclose everything all at once”) or may be acceptable (“keep on giving us the information as soon as you make a detailed and accurate description of each head”) or in between (“disclose everything everything at once”, but do make corrections with explanations"). > > You would agree that what has been released thus far is hardly conclusive? There is no doubt that Kushner was caught red-handed with serious deficiencies in his forms, which he corrected only after being called out. Plus that lawyer’s statements about Kushner amending his form to say in essence “I’ve had a lot of foreign meetings, ask me about them and I’ll give you more information” is a laughable response to the issues raised. Literally nobody but the President’s family could get away with such nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/138 "2017-07-12T17:19:20Z")
Well for you maybe. And me. However, for someone like Kushner, who was heavily involved in his professional capacity in meeting lots of people, including many foreigners, it would stand to reason that he would not be able to recall all of them off the cuff, or even without doing some digging. And still be unable to remember everything. Of course the flip side you can use a fact like that and try to explain away all sorts of things. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/139 "2017-07-12T17:30:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Plus that lawyer’s statements about Kushner amending his form to say in essence “I’ve had a lot of foreign meetings, ask me about them and I’ll give you more information” is a laughable response to the issues raised. Literally nobody but the President’s family could get away with such nonsense. He might as well have put “I will tell you about each individual meeting only after it is leaked to the press.” ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001/140 "2017-07-12T17:30:39Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Well for you maybe. And me. However, for someone like Kushner, who was heavily involved in his professional capacity in meeting lots of people, including many foreigners, it would stand to reason that he would not be able to recall all of them off the cuff, or even without doing some digging. And still be unable to remember everything. > > Of course the flip side you can use a fact like that and try to explain away all sorts of things. which will come down to how he initially answered it on the form itself “details coming seperately” is very different than “N/A” - remember, the form itself specifies that all questions must be answered and nothing left blank. If someone else filled out the form and he signed it - he’s still on the hook for the answers given. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-and-would-trump-sr-pardon-trump-jr/791001.md?page=8)