# Could anti-healthcare reform rhetoric backfire on the Republicans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899 "2010-03-18T16:05:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/141 "2010-03-19T21:04:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You appear not to have read your own cite > Regards, > Shodan Did you read the part you yourself quoted about the gaps in other polls closing? As much regards as you actually have for anyone else here, ElvisL1ves ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/142 "2010-03-19T21:07:59Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > OK, just so I’m clear: > > Your story, and you’re sticking to it, is that the entire poll is completely incorrect and can be completely ignored, and NO doctors will retire and therefore reduce healthcare access to millions of Americans once this bill passes. It’s a flawed poll, so you can’t draw any conclusions from it. It’s up to you to provide a reputable poll to support your claim of mass de-doctoring. I didn’t say no one will quit. I said your poll is flawed and doesn’t support your claim that it will be a large problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/143 "2010-03-19T22:19:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s a flawed poll, so you can’t draw any conclusions from it. It’s up to you to provide a reputable poll to support your claim of mass de-doctoring. > > I didn’t say no one will quit. I said your poll is flawed and doesn’t support your claim that it will be a large problem. Well, you’re getting closer. BTW, every poll is flawed in some way. Just because this one has a margin of error larger than you like doesn’t mean that the message is no less devastating. A random sampling of over 1300 docs suggest that many will retire rather than go through the nonsense that will befall them should this bill pass. The truth is, there will be any number of unintended consequences from this bill. I didn’t even want to mention the rumored $690/year tax that people can pay, forego getting any insurance at all, then just go out and get insurance, no pre-condition disqualification, when they get cancer or something. Then Uncle Sucker gets to foot the bill (or our kids since we’re borrowing all this money…) But not to change the subject… And I guess this gets us back to the OP. If (when) the deficit and debt go ballistic, the backlash will be against those who a) screwed up a [good thing](http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/7979.pdf), and sent us into financial ruin. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/144 "2010-03-19T22:54:36Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Do you not see the hypocrisy of what you’re saying? > > If it’s wrong/unhealthy to eat meat, that statement needs to stay true whether you’re hungry or not. Such that if there is a point where you either die of starvation or eat meat, I would expect a vegetarian to follow through with their beliefs and die. > > Otherwise you’re left with the opinion of “eating meat is wrong, unless you’re hungry and there’s nothing else in the fridge.” All of us find ourselves with conflicting obligations from time to time. There may be an obligation not to eat meat. There is also an obligation not to let oneself die. If someone allowed themselves to starve to death for their vegetarianism, then shouldn’t you say about them: “You hypocrite! You believe you shouldn’t allow yourself to die–unless it just happens the only way to survive is by eating meat.” -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/145 "2010-03-19T22:55:32Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Well, you’re getting closer. BTW, every poll is flawed in some way. Just because this one has a margin of error larger than you like doesn’t mean that the message is no less devastating. A random sampling of over 1300 docs suggest that many will retire rather than go through the nonsense that will befall them should this bill pass. It’s a flawed poll. You can’t draw any conclusions from a flawed poll. It wasn’t conducted scientifically, it has zero merit and you’re embarrassing yourself by clinging to it. Why not point to a web poll for your opinions if you’ve just given up on citing things with merit. > [@](#): > > The truth is, there will be any number of unintended consequences from this bill. It isn’t the truth. It is your opinion. And for that matter there are unintended consequences every time you wake up in the morning. We have to go with what we have evidence for. You have no evidence. > [@](#): > > I didn’t even want to mention the rumored $690/year tax that people can pay, forego getting any insurance at all, then just go out and get insurance, no pre-condition disqualification, when they get cancer or something. Then Uncle Sucker gets to foot the bill (or our kids since we’re borrowing all this money…) But not to change the subject… It’s a mandate. Most people will get medical insurance rather than pay the penalty. If you later enter the pool, that’s a good thing. Also, this bill will lower the deficit. It is giving money back to our children. > [@](#): > > And I guess this gets us back to the OP. If (when) the deficit and debt go ballistic, the backlash will be against those who a) screwed up a [good thing](http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/7979.pdf), and sent us into financial ruin. This bill will lower the deficit. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/146 "2010-03-19T23:37:43Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Do you not understand that we don’t have infinite resources, for anything (including healthcare)? You’re quite right. But what to do, what to do? Hmmm… well, the private health insurance Death Panels might just be a cost-containment strategy too perfect to pass up. Because when it comes to refusing coverage for cancer treatments (etc.) those bean-counting insurance executives are second-to-none! There’s no shame in borrowing ideas from the best! ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/147 "2010-03-19T23:55:08Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > Wow. That’s the most disgusting thing I’ve ever heard anyone say. > > You people really do worship money, don’t you? Oh, please, I _support_ the current health care reform bill, but you’re taking **Bricker** ’s comment here out of context. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Have you been paying attention to the “debate” coming out of the conservative side? Have you listened to one Senator PRAYING FOR THE DEATH OF ANOTHER? Idle (and morbid) curiosity here, but when did this happen? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/148 "2010-03-20T02:02:16Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Sorry, you have spouted a lot of (gibberish). . . . Please help me to understand your labyrinthine logic. . . . > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > As much regards as you actually have for anyone else here, Knock it off with the personal jabs. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/149 "2010-03-20T12:47:18Z")
Huh? Are you accusing **Shodan** of insincerity in his tag line? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/150 "2010-03-20T15:34:30Z")
If ~50% of US doctors are planning on quitting if this bill is passed, there are gonna be a\* lot \* of MD’s eating ramen noodles and cat food fairly soon. Not all of them will be able to find teaching gigs or work in industry, so how will they make a living? Oh I know, maybe they can move to Europe and practice there! Or Canada! That’ll solve their problems. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/151 "2010-03-20T18:53:07Z")
I’m thinking that this will not backfire on the Republicans this round of elections. The reform bill is not an entitlement the way social security is, and not everybody is invested in it. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/152 "2010-03-21T00:19:08Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I’m guessing you’re liberal (excuse me, _progressive_) and just see the other side as wrong/emotional as a way to invalidate their pretty reasonable positions; a position held by more Americans than yours. But not all conservatives are just emotion, just as not all Dems are; just the ones you want to demonize to validate your viewpoint as the reasonable one. First of all, I’m liberal. The conservatives can try to demonize that word all they want, but I’m proudly liberal. What reasonable positions are you talking about and who’s making them? Because I honestly haven’t seen any yet. > [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > Idle (and morbid) curiosity here, but when did this happen? [Tom Coburn prays for the death of Robert Byrd](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002872.html?hpid=topnews) You can say he didn’t say it specifically, but the facts are that: ~Dems tried to move up the time of the vote from 1am to a more reasonable time for Byrd ~Reps rejected it ~Byrd is known to be in ill health ~GOP leaders pressured the few Reps who were going to vote for cloture to withold it, making Byrd’s presence essential ~Who the fuck prays people won’t make it to a vote? Pray for their minds to be changed, pray for unexpected votes for your side, but pray for a negative? Who the fuck does that? Republicans, that’s who ~I’ve yet to hear an apology or an acknowledgement from the Rep side about this death prayer ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/153 "2010-03-21T02:15:38Z")
If I was an independent wondering which side of this debate was less crazy, I think the reported actions of the right-wing Libertarian Tea Baggers on Capital Hill today would’ve made up my mind. [Reports are that Rep. Barney Frank was called a faggot, Rep. John Lewis was called a nigger and baby killer, and Rep. Emanual Clever was spit at.](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34747.html) Keep this up, and hell yes their rhetoric is going to backfire. This kind of racist, extremist, disrespectful, angry, bigoted crap doesn’t appeal to the middle, only the fringe. But this crap is quickly becoming the face and identity of the opposition. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/154 "2010-03-21T02:30:11Z")
I wish someone would make a recording of Barney Frank walking the halls of Congress, I’d like to know if you can actually hear the clatter his brass balls make when he walks. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/155 "2010-03-21T04:33:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Do you have a health insurance policy today? I trust you do not, but just pay the full bill yourself when needed, right? > > If you do have one, then the other members of your risk pool are \*already \*“taking care of you and your family” if you have a health problem. And you are _already_ taking care of theirs. Do you have any concerns about the apparent contradiction there? > . I think the key point here is that, with the system as it is, we continue to honor and feed a number of sacred cows which we desperately need to start questioning. Present system, inclusive of the possible failure to enact reform: [ul] [li]Ensures maximum flow of dollars to private enterprise (the insurance companies)[/li][li]Upholds the ideal of the “best healthcare in the world” (really a boutique for rich foreigners who can afford to travel here buy treatment).[/li][li]Upholds the principle of free enterprise generally (there are winners and losers, and losers don’t deserve to receive health care anymore than they do new cars, luxury apartments, or large HD TVs.)[/li][li]Alliance with and support of Israel remains invio–oops, never mind[/li][/ul] My counterpoints would be [ul] [li]Health insurers don’t deserve to be aided by public policy. In fact, if they do more harm than good, they don’t deserve to exist at all, any more than crack dealers. [/li][li]The opportunity for wealthy nonresidents to come here and obtain “the best in the world” is of utterly no consideration and should not inform public policy one iota.[/li][li]Health is a public, not a private issue. [/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/156 "2010-03-21T05:13:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [Here.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite) > > Presumably you’re relying on definition number two, since there’s nothing religious or virtuous in play here. > > The stated belief or feeling: “It is unwise and poor social policy for the U.S. to use government money to bail out individuals or companies.” > > -or- > > “It’s a bad rule to use Free Parking as a source of money, because it’s inflationary and causes the game to go on much longer.” > > In what way is the individual acting in contradiction to his stated belief or feeling by either taking Free Parking money or government bailouts, once each policy has been enacted contrary to his recommendations? > > Answer: in no way. Exhibit A as to why attorneys suck. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/157 "2010-03-21T10:05:42Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > If I was an independent wondering which side of this debate was less crazy, I think the reported actions of the right-wing Libertarian Tea Baggers on Capital Hill today would’ve made up my mind. > > [Reports are that Rep. Barney Frank was called a faggot, Rep. John Lewis was called a nigger and baby killer, and Rep. Emanual Clever was spit at.](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34747.html) > > Keep this up, and hell yes their rhetoric is going to backfire. This kind of racist, extremist, disrespectful, angry, bigoted crap doesn’t appeal to the middle, only the fringe. But this crap is quickly becoming the face and identity of the opposition. All of the above was accompanied by yet more signs threatening violence. See the photo slides here: (scroll down) [If Brown can’t stop it, a Browning can](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/tea-party-protests-nier-f_n_507116.html) Including the return of the Obama in a Hitler-stache poster. I suspect the closer we get to November, the more insane the Republican rallies are going to get. And yes, I hope that means it backfires on them. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/158 "2010-03-21T12:21:51Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > Exhibit A as to why attorneys suck. No man, no. He’s right, and he’s making an important point. There is a difference between saying “No one should do X” and “X should not be allowed by the system.” I can say the second, while at the same time doing X, without being a hypocrite. I’d be a hypocrite if I said the first sentence while at the same time doing X. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/159 "2010-03-21T14:16:06Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > All of the above was accompanied by yet more signs threatening violence. See the photo slides here: (scroll down) > > [If Brown can’t stop it, a Browning can](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/tea-party-protests-nier-f_n_507116.html) > > Including the return of the Obama in a Hitler-stache poster. > > I suspect the closer we get to November, the more insane the Republican rallies are going to get. And yes, I hope that means it backfires on them. And I could understand if it was just some rogue protesters, but not only are the Republicans NOT making any effort to distance themselves from these bigoted, racist, extremist assholes, they’re actually speaking at their rallies! And House Minority Leader Jon Boehner was out shaking their hands. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899/160 "2010-03-21T14:24:08Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > No man, no. He’s right, and he’s making an important point. There is a difference between saying “No one should do X” and “X should not be allowed by the system.” I can say the second, while at the same time doing X, without being a hypocrite. I’d be a hypocrite if I said the first sentence while at the same time doing X. Exactly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anti-healthcare-reform-rhetoric-backfire-on-the-republicans/532899.md?page=9)