# Could anyone stand up to Birther scrutiny? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 22, 2012, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608 "2012-02-22T06:03:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/21 "2012-02-22T18:20:21Z")
I want Orly Taitz to prove to me that she’s a legal resident of the U.S. and that she’s a licensed dentist and really did pass the Bar. And I don’t want to see any forged documents or fake degrees or phony licenses or counterfeited test results. I also don’t want to hear any perjured statements by paid liars! I already know that it’s all a scam. Deport her! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/22 "2012-02-22T18:37:19Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > I had to order a new copy of DH’s for some family tree stuff, and except for the date and saying Washington instead of Hawaii, it looks exactly like the one Obama originally released during the election. > > I had no idea I’d married a Kenyan Muslim terrorist! 🆒 Well imagine my surprise to find out I _was_ one! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/23 "2012-02-22T18:43:41Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Even with video, you couldn’t. > > “Here’s a video of my birth.” > “Fake. Hospitals don’t look any different in Sweden. The voices en were probably dubbed in.” > “The obstetrician is a Canadian citizen. Look at the video, and look at these newspaper articles in the Globe and Mail. Same person.” > “Fake. How can you tell for up that the same person when he/she is wearing a mask?” > “Right after I was born, a nurse held up that day’s Globe and Mail.” > “Could have been printed in Sweden. They can do that now.” Exactly. I don’t know that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii to 100% certainty; I know he was born there to 99.99% certainty, which is about as certain as you can be of anything. That’s as certain as HE is that he was born in Hawaii. If we are to conduct our lives in any sot of an effective fashion, we have to treat a level of certainyy above a reasonable number as simple fact. The Truther argument simply keeps hammering on the .01%, and then the .001%, and then the .0001%, ignoring whether or not it means a damn thing. It’s like kids who keeps asking “why?” “Why is the sky blue?” “Well, because of the way the sunlight goes through the air.” “Why?” “Well…” and pretty soon you’re into quantum physics. There’s no end to how many questions you CAN ask. There’s a limit to how many questions you can ask before you’re a goddamned nut case. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/24 "2012-02-22T18:53:15Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > Personally, I would find that pretty silly. I’d argue that the point of the “natural-born citizen” requirement was to ensure that the President had a real connection to and background in the United States, not to eliminate people with an obvious connection to the country who maybe weren’t, technically, citizens at birth due to a bureaucratic snafu. Actually, it was first proposed so that[European nobility](http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Why-Must-the-President-Be-a-Natural-Born-Citizen) couldn’t be asked to come over and run for president. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/25 "2012-02-22T18:56:55Z")
> [@grude](#): > > As I said certain conditions must be met, but with TWO US citizen parents what are the chances at least one would not meet the residency requirement. Well, first, you didn’t say certain conditions had to be met. You said “Being born to a US citizen confers citizenship at birth”. And it doesn’t. Not even being born to two US citizen parents necessarily confers US citizenship at birth. What are the chances that with two US citizen parents, neither would have had residency in the US sometime before the child’s birth? Likely enough that the US State Department included it in the regulations. My sons are both US citizens who have never lived in the US (remember, vacations don’t count). They both know other kids their age in the same situation. If one of these friendships should in time turn into love and babies, well, there’s two US citizens unable to confer citizenship on their child. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/26 "2012-02-22T21:10:55Z")
Not even a Birther could prove his or her birth given the usual Birther tactics. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/27 "2012-02-22T21:21:50Z")
> [@Jasper\_Kent](#): > > My birth certificate does not reflect my legal name. When my mom remarried(I was 7), my stepdad adopted me. I suppose it depends on your state and age, but usually you get a new birth certificate after an adoption. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/28 "2012-02-22T21:30:46Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > No, it doesn’t. It is not that simple. > > At the present time, if both a child’s parents are US citizens, and the child is not born in the US, then the child is a US citizen if at least one of the parents has had residency in the US at any time. Summer vacations to visit grandparents don’t count as residency, but a semester at college apparently would. > > If one parent is a US citizen and the other is not, and the child is not born in the US, then the child is a US citizen if the citizen parent has lived in the US for at least five years, including at least two after his or her fourteenth birthday. > > But that’s now. The residency requirements were longer when Obama was born - the only part of the argument the birthers get right - and when McCain was born the rules were not well-defined at all. The citizenship status of children born to two US citizens but not in US territory was, at the time, unclear. The law was later changed and those born in McCain’s situation were declared to be citizens, but someone with an ax to grind could make a case that McCain doesn’t qualify as being natural-born, since his citizenship at birth was unclear. > > Personally, I would find that pretty silly. I’d argue that the point of the “natural-born citizen” requirement was to ensure that the President had a real connection to and background in the United States, not to eliminate people with an obvious connection to the country who maybe weren’t, technically, citizens at birth due to a bureaucratic snafu. But somebody who wanted to make trouble would find the raw materials there. If you are in the military you are never considered a resident of whatever country you happen to be stationed in. Your home of record is still in the US. I had to pay NJ state taxes for two years while I was in Germany even though I never set foot in the state during that time. Citizenship for the family of soldiers stationed overseas is routine unless the parents aren’t married and both are not US citizens. Imagine if my brother and sisters had to answer birthed questions. All birth certificates issued in Jersey City up to a certain date are considered invalid. Can’t use them at DMV, to get a passport, totally worthless even if you have the original. All those affected have to go to Trenton to have the state issue a certificate. I guess none of them can be president. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/29 "2012-02-22T21:50:32Z")
I was born in Alaska when it was still a territory. It certainly makes me a suspicious sort to birther assholes, I’m sure. My response to a challenge would probably be to kick the guy in the nuts and get on with my day. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/30 "2012-02-23T20:06:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I could convince a third party, but not a Birther. Well, duh. None of the evidence you produce will cause Barack Obama’s albedo to increase by so much as one part in a billion. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/31 "2012-02-25T01:14:18Z")
Thank you for the best chuckle of the day.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lightlystarched](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Lightlystarched](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightlystarched)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/32 "2012-02-25T02:10:12Z")
This whole birther thing has cracked me up since inception. My brother was born in Hawaii, to a young girl who was only visiting there, not a resident, and then he was adopted by my parents. So, his birth certificate is a “certificate of live birth”, but the information on it reflects nothing of the circumstances of his real birth. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/33 "2012-02-25T02:15:16Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If you are in the military you are never considered a resident of whatever country you happen to be stationed in. Your home of record is still in the US. I had to pay NJ state taxes for two years while I was in Germany even though I never set foot in the state during that time. Why New Jersey, then? If you were gonna be out of the country like that, you should have declared residency in a state that doesn’t have an income tax. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/34 "2012-02-25T03:40:38Z")
I’m sure a birther would not accept a consular report of birth abroad, which is what you get if you apply for it these days when you are born outside the US. (Not sure what US military bases qualify as or if you need a consular report of birth abroad.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/35 "2012-02-25T03:51:22Z")
To illustrate the relevance of the residency requirement, consider Liberia, which was settled by freed American slaves and their descendants. The first generation were mostly American citizens, and so if residency didn’t matter, so would their children, and grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, and so on, even without any of them ever setting foot on North America. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608/36 "2012-02-28T03:39:06Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Actually, it was first proposed so that[European nobility](http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Why-Must-the-President-Be-a-Natural-Born-Citizen) couldn’t be asked to come over and run for president. And these are probably the same folks that wanted a constitutional amendment to allow the President to be foreign-born, so Arnold Schwarzenegger could have the chance to run for the office. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-anyone-stand-up-to-birther-scrutiny/613608.md?page=1)