# Could army doctors actually get away with Hawkeye-like behavior? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 22, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585 "2010-11-22T21:46:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/41 "2010-11-23T21:54:54Z")
My late husband was a Medivac (Dustoff) helicopter pilot in Viet Nam 1966-67, and he said that M_A_S\*H was VERY accurate- the attitudes, the tension, the pranks, the relationships, the “meatball” surgery- everything. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/42 "2010-11-23T23:39:19Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > With all the inconsistency from season-to-season, it’s best to treat each individual season as existing in a separate reality. I guess that brings up the question–how many episodes referred to very specific historical incidents (military or otherwise) that could be tracked to an exact date (as a chronological frame of reference)? The one I remember most clearly (besides the last ep and the end of the war) is the Olympics episode, which was meant to coincide with the Helsinki Olympics (opening ceremonies 7/19/52) ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/43 "2010-11-23T23:46:32Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > I guess that brings up the question–how many episodes referred to very specific historical incidents (military or otherwise) that could be tracked to an exact date (as a chronological frame of reference)? > > The one I remember most clearly (besides the last ep and the end of the war) is the Olympics episode, which was meant to coincide with the Helsinki Olympics (opening ceremonies 7/19/52) There was the episode “A War for all Seasons” that covered the entire year of 1951. Specifically because of the bet between Klinger & Potter and “The Giants win the pennant!” ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/44 "2010-11-23T23:55:20Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > They were all draftees, but at different points in the series, both Blake and Burns mentioned they’d been to “command school,” while apparently Hawkeye, Trapper and BJ hadn’t. I think Blake was ROTC in college, or something like that, that gave him a leg up, for some value of the phrase “leg up.” ETA: Also, I should preview. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/45 "2010-11-23T23:58:24Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > There was the episode “A War for all Seasons” that covered the entire year of 1951. Specifically because of the bet between Klinger & Potter and “The Giants win the pennant!” And the episode that introduced Potter said he arrived the following year. I’d have to look up the exact date. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/46 "2010-11-24T00:09:27Z")
There was also an episode that covered two New Years, perhaps 1951 and 1952. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/47 "2010-11-24T00:11:46Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > There was also an episode that covered two New Years, perhaps 1951 and 1952. That’s “A War for All Seasons”. ---
**Author:** ![AllShookDown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d9b06d/32.png) [@AllShookDown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllShookDown)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/48 "2010-11-24T13:17:16Z")
[Obituary, story, photo of MASH doctor.](http://www.jsonline.com/news/obituaries/107266658.html) ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/49 "2010-11-24T14:55:38Z")
> [@](#): > > from Wikipedia credentialed civilian professionals such as scientists, pharmacists, nurses, doctors, physician assistants, pastors, clinical social workers, clinical psychologists and lawyers are also directly commissioned upon entry into the military or another federal uniformed service. > Basically you need a college degree to be an officer. This includes pastors, who usually hold a degree from a seminary. > [@2ply](#): > > Basically you need a college degree to be an officer. This includes pastors, who usually hold a degree from a seminary. Teachers, too. My family (all civilians) went to a Canadian military base in Germany in the 90s, and my mother, an elementary school teacher, had a ranking of Captain, which gave her access to certain things on base (the Officer’s Mess being one of them) and I think support pay for costs of living there/etc. I was too young at the time to remember the details about other privileges she received, but she still likes to joke about how she was a Canadian Forces Captain for a few years! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/50 "2010-11-24T16:11:45Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > I guess that brings up the question–how many episodes referred to very specific historical incidents (military or otherwise) that could be tracked to an exact date (as a chronological frame of reference)? There was definitely an episode set on the day the Chinese entered the war (and of course the MASH was totally slammed). ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/51 "2010-11-24T17:09:39Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Hawkeye is also Chief Surgeon, so while Burns has he higher military rank, Hawkeye “outranks” him in the O.R. It complicates things a bit more than straight military rank. What you’re looking for is a term we learned in Basic: “Don’t confuse _your_ rank with _my_ authority.” A lowly Private, who happens to be Military Police, can haul a drunk General out of his auto and arrest him for drunk driving. Before we deployed to Saudi Arabi for Gulf War I, our unit “Doc” was a CW3 PA. The “Doc Cottle” from BSG was a spot-on example, behavior-wise, of Chief Austin, sans cigarettes; Chief Austin was a RA health-nut and marathon runner, and death on tobacco in _any_ form. But once we were alerted for deployment to Saudi, we received a full-blown Major (who was a trauma surgeon as a civilian) as our Battalion Chief Medical Officer. He came around to do a “meet-and-greet” with the various units in our battalion, and told us straight up that he’d gone through a “30-day Wonder” officer training course. While he never displayed “Hawkeye” behavior (Maj. Noel was a volunteer, not a reluctant draftee), he did have a certain insouciance for military protocol and courtesy where it conflicted with medical stuff. There was a rumor of a quietly intense “discussion” about “conflict of priorities” between Maj. Noel and our Battalion S-3, Maj. “Batman” Bynum well _after_ one of our combat ops. on 4/20/91, where Alpha Company’s XO’s Bradley and one of our medic tracks took some serious wounded, with some KIAs. Being a line-doggy, I was not privy to it, and heard about it 4th hand through my tank commander, who was also our (Delta) Company XO. In essence, Maj. Noel wanted to immediately rush medical support to the scene of the action to support the wounded, while Maj. Bynum wanted to firepower the Iraqi’s shooting at us into submission (or the afterlife) before sending any more “soft targets” into the kill-box. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/52 "2010-11-25T14:50:47Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I always thought the most unbelievable thing was how drunk they’d get, knowing that large numbers of casualties could show up at any time - they always seemed surprised when the choppers arrived. It’s not like they had enough surgeons that they could count on being off duty regardless of the circumstances. And the episode where Alan Alda’s dad was a guest star showed that Hawkeye at least wouldn’t operate when drunk. In the TV show it wasn’t very accurate about the number of doctors there. No way they could sustain 24 hour operations with 4 doctors. It was necessary to keep the cast down. The movie had a more realistic number of personnel. > [@StusBlues](#): > > True. A friend of mine served in a medical facility in the Gulf. The C.O. was a captain, and one of the doctors was a Lt. Colonel. They got along just fine, with the higher ranking man giving all due deference. The medical corps is certainly different. The Army never has enough doctors. Certainly not in a combat zone. So necessarily they rely on reservists. Those part timers are usually direct commissions. If they have been in for some time they may have elevated rank. The Army recognizes that pulling a doctor away from their practice is a hardship and many would drop out so their tours are only 3 or six months long. So it is very likely that you can have a lower ranking officer in “command” of a Colonel. To muddy up the waters you have medical service officers who are not doctors that are hospital administrators. > [@2ply](#): > > Basically you need a college degree to be an officer. This includes pastors, who usually hold a degree from a seminary. Not true. Only graduates with specialized skills get direct commisions. All others have to go through the normal channels such as ROTC, OCS or the academy. Direct commisions basically go to doctors, nurses, lawyers, scientists, chaplains etc. People the Army would not get otherwise. They put them in a school for a couple of weeks, teach them how to salute (badly), how to wear the uniform, and the rank structure. Then they go do their job. Obviously my experience is more modern and not during the 50s. There are no more MASHs. The Army now has Combat Support Hospitals ( CSH pronounced CaSH). ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/53 "2010-11-25T15:06:02Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Can you be charged with insubordination just for pissing off someone of higher rank when they aren’t even in your chain of command? Of course you can. _Cite: Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C._ Here is what always bugged me about M_A_S\*H: They were supposed to be a ‘mobile’ hospital, ready to up and move at the drop of a cap (in fact, they ‘bugged out’ a few times). But, during many scenes, the buildings seem semi-permanent. The OR (and maybe the mess? Blake/Potter’s office?), in particular, seems to have solid wood walls. I really doubt that it’s possible to dismantle the camp and move it all to the other side of the hill with just the personnel and transportation they had. mmm ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/54 "2010-11-25T16:32:08Z")
They did “bug out” on several occasions. The show’s budget necessarily limited these instances of course. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/55 "2010-11-25T21:04:51Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > They did “bug out” on several occasions. The show’s budget necessarily limited these instances of course. Yeah, but considering how dramatically the front moved during the Korean war, they should have tried harder. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/56 "2010-11-25T22:44:52Z")
You don’t necessarily know that the M_A_S\*H is in the same place in each episode. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/57 "2010-11-25T22:49:46Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > You don’t necessarily know that the M_A_S\*H is in the same place in each episode. Sure you did. It was in Malibu Creek State Park, every year. God-damned army. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/58 "2010-11-26T14:15:58Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > You don’t necessarily know that the M_A_S\*H is in the same place in each episode. In my post I was wondering not _whether_ they moved, but _how_. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/59 "2010-11-26T15:49:43Z")
The wooden walls of the CO’s office are held together by pegs and can be easily taken down to be moved, or [to remove something that can’t fit through the doors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Market,_to_Market_(M*A*S*H_episode)). ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585/60 "2010-11-26T23:01:07Z")
I dunno, how hard would it have been to say ‘attention all personnel, bugout bugout bugout,’ in a dramatic moment instead of incoming wounded from time to time? They could have opened an episode with them putting in the last couple of tent pegs and complaining about their backs, once in awhile. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-army-doctors-actually-get-away-with-hawkeye-like-behavior/561585.md?page=4)