# Could Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld be charged with aggressive war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-bush-cheney-rumsfeld-be-charged-with-aggressive-war/377409 "2006-10-22T04:14:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-bush-cheney-rumsfeld-be-charged-with-aggressive-war/377409/21 "2006-10-22T19:25:42Z")
I don’t think it makes sense for either side in this debate to be arguing whether or not the American invasion of Iraq is “exactly like” the German invasion of Poland. It’s silly for the pro-war side to suggest that any question of the legality of our actions is tantamount to saying “the American invasion of Iraq was exactly the same as the German invasion of Poland”, and it’s silly for the anti-war side to take the bait. One day John follows Mary home from her workplace (an elementary school); he breaks into her house and sexually assaults and tortures her before finally killing her. Meanwhile, Jim and Bob are business partners. Jim discovers that Bob has been defrauding him in various ways, and also that Bob is having an affair with Jim’s wife. Jim confronts Bob; they have a big argument, and in a moment of rage and frustration Jim grabs a blunt object and bashes Bob’s head in. Are the two situations “exactly the same”? No, but both John and Jim should be charged with some degree of “homicide”; first-degree murder in one case, voluntary manslaughter or second-degree murder or whatever the term in that jurisdiction is in the second case. There’s no need to say that the two men are “exactly the same”. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-bush-cheney-rumsfeld-be-charged-with-aggressive-war/377409/22 "2006-10-22T19:38:24Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] But it will never happen. The winners never get their day in (international court). Even if we ran from Iraq with our collective tails between our legs tomorrow, we’d still be, at least nominally, the winners and we’d be strong and powerful. Combine “winner” with strong and powerful, and it just ain’t gonna happen. [/QUOTE] Of course it won’t. GW will retire and become an ex president will all of the trappings and honors attaching to that position. He will even be invited to speak at graduation ceremonies of prestigious universities and will be warmly applauded for his cogent advice. In time he will be gathered to the God he worships and maybe 50 or 75 years downstream his record will be analysed and found to be one that would make Albert Anastasia ashamed. > [@aclubs](#): > > One of the main reasons for US opposition to the International Criminal Court is that it would allow foreign or international bodies to bring charges against American officials. I don’t have comprehensive knowledge of this area, but I’d be shocked if the US had signed similar agreements in the past that would grant authority to the UN to convict Bush et al of war crimes. Me too, but I don’t think Germany agreed in advance that their leaders would be liable to such charges either. Charges were brought and trials followed just the same. One such punishment might be confinement in a secret prison without recourse to any avenue of appeal. After all, the precedent has been set. But that’s going into fantasy which doesn’t belong in GD. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-bush-cheney-rumsfeld-be-charged-with-aggressive-war/377409/23 "2006-10-22T20:48:24Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Intersting. Is that your interperetation of why Germany invaded Poland? Or even the excuse Germany used to invade Poland? Your knowledge of history is truely dizzying. [/QUOTE] You _do_ have a point. **'luc** forgot to mention the [completely confabulated terrorist threat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident) that was Germany’s primary casus belli. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-bush-cheney-rumsfeld-be-charged-with-aggressive-war/377409/24 "2006-10-23T03:54:26Z")
If China or Russia had invaded Iraq instead of the US, you would not hear a single voice raised in support. A prosecution for war crimes would face the same obstacles, but there would not be the same voices raised to cloud the issues. Given exactly the same background, all it would take is a different member of the UN Security Council to invade. Day and night all you would hear is support from freedom-loving USA for those plucky Iraqi partisans resisting the aggressive invasion by a foreign power. There’d be talk of arms supplies and sanctions and the duty of brave Iraqis to resist. Instead: IOKIUSTDI. Take away the fact that it is US troops involved and **xtisme** and co. would rally in support for the resistance, as they should. But tell us; apart from changing the identity of the invader, when do the war’s supporters start rooting for Iraqis to defeat US troops? Never, because apart from nationality there is nothing lelse in support of the invasion. It is the view that US lives are inherently worth more then those of the nation they invade. Racism in a word. Racial prejudice; without it there’d be no war and its time its supporters acknowledge that this is who they are. ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-bush-cheney-rumsfeld-be-charged-with-aggressive-war/377409/25 "2006-10-23T14:40:04Z")
[QUOTE=aclubs] One of the main reasons for US opposition to the International Criminal Court is that it would allow foreign or international bodies to bring charges against American officials. I don’t have comprehensive knowledge of this area, but I’d be shocked if the US had signed similar agreements in the past that would grant authority to the UN to convict Bush et al of war crimes. [/QUOTE] I am not sure if Bush got this law approved, but he even tried to institute a law that would allow the US Army to invade any country that would take a US soldier to court for war-crimes. And that was years ago, making it pretty clear what his intentions are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-bush-cheney-rumsfeld-be-charged-with-aggressive-war/377409.md?page=1)