# Could Clinton Avoided Impeachment By Being Honest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 25, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917 "2009-11-25T16:25:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/21 "2009-11-25T22:02:58Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Had he not lied under oath, he would not have been impeached. Assumes facts not in evidence. Honestly, I think the GOP in Congress would have kept going until they found SOMETHING they could reasonably expect to get out of committee. Like the person above says, an impeachable offense is whatever they can get the votes for. The whole thing was an embarassment, an utter contradiction of the law’s spirit. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/22 "2009-11-25T22:12:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I agree. He would not have committed perjury, there would have been no impeachment. Oh, he coulda been impeached. But, there is a big difference between just being impeached on something morally questionable and being impreached on something morally questionable topped off with something else **decidely illegal** that was used to try to cover up the morally questionable. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/23 "2009-11-25T22:37:26Z")
> [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > Assumes facts not in evidence. Honestly, I think the GOP in Congress would have kept going until they found SOMETHING they could reasonably expect to get out of committee. So why did they wait until he lied under oath? If they were that desperate, they should have found something he pulled before Lewinsky. God knows there was enough sleaze apart from his zipper problems. The GOP in Congress waited until Clinton clearly violated the law. He was under oath, and he perjured himself. Had he not perjured himself, he would not have been impeached. Yes, if he had admitted fucking with the hired help, there would have been another scandal, just like Travelgate and Filegate and Juanita Broaderrick and Kathleen Wiley and the pardons for money and all the rest of it. But there would not have been impeachment. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/24 "2009-11-25T23:22:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > God knows there was enough sleaze apart from his zipper problems. So what was your favorite example of that? > [@](#): > > He was under oath, and he perjured himself. We’ve had enough discussions of that here that you know that not to be true. > [@](#): > > Travelgate and Filegate and Juanita Broaderrick and Kathleen Wiley and the pardons for money and all the rest of it. Okay, tell us what exactly you think were the facts behind any of that (and “all the rest of” what, precisely?). Be prepared to discuss them. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/25 "2009-11-25T23:23:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I agree. He would not have committed perjury, there would have been no impeachment. Had there been no futile effort to find something to impeach him for, there would have been no trap set to _create_ something. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/26 "2009-11-25T23:27:03Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Had there been no futile effort to find something to impeach him for, there would have been no trap set to _create_ something. I thought beaver traps were outlawed in most provinces… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/27 "2009-11-26T00:58:46Z")
The Senate found him not guilty of perjury. Judge Wright found him in civil contempt of misleading the Court. The State Bar suspended (disbarred?) him. It was bullshit from beginning to end. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/28 "2009-11-26T01:02:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, sorry, not buying it. Doesn’t even come close to ringing true. They had no chance of kicking him out of office, but they were itching to try, and that’s why they jumped on an issue most people did not think was that important. They could have easily censured him and scored a moral victory without getting nearly as much flack for their obsessive focus on his sex life. He didn’t get impeached for his sex life. He got impeached…and cited for contempt…and his law license suspended…because he lied under oath. He has no one to blame but himself. Had he been able to refrain from adultery, he’d have had nothing to lie about. Once busted, if he’d told the truth under oath, he would not have been impeached. It is not a question of the GoP being mean, it’s a question of Clinton being foolish. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/29 "2009-11-26T01:48:11Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > But, there is a big difference between just being impeached on something morally questionable and being impreached on something morally questionable topped off with something else **decidely illegal** that was used to try to cover up the morally questionable. It it was so illegal, why were no criminal charges brought? Why wasn’t he convicted? The fact remains the prevarications of that sort- even under oath- are almost never charged as perjury, but most often penalized by contempt of court. Which is what happened. What he did was not perjury. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/30 "2009-11-26T02:22:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It it was so illegal, why were no criminal charges brought? Why wasn’t he convicted? > > The fact remains the prevarications of that sort- even under oath- are almost never charged as perjury, but most often penalized by contempt of court. Which is what happened. > > What he did was not perjury. ahhh..let the nitpicking start. He sure as hell didnt tell the gods honest truth…and thats what bit him in the ass. Oakminster summed it up quite nicely IMO. And when it comes to our legal system…sure there is plenty of IMO legit debate about procedures, rights, what constitutes evidence and on and on and on. But even a retard (much less an intelligent lawyer and president of the USA) understands there is ONE KEY THING that must not be allowed to happen. Lying on the stand. Once you have that happening, all the rest becomes a fricking waste of time, if not an actual travesty of justice. And WHY did he lie (or at least greatly mislead) ? Not for some noble purpose. Not to save his life. Not for some higher principle. Not because there was any reasonable expectation that it was irrelevant to the case he was being questioned about. Because he was embarrassed about getting a blow job. If it aint a big deal, don’t fricking lie/mislead about it in court. And if it IS a big deal, you really shouldnt lie about it in court in the first place. On this issue, Clinton hung himself by his own petard. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/31 "2009-11-26T02:26:00Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > He sure as hell didnt tell the gods honest truth…and thats what bit him in the ass. Oakminster summed it up quite nicely IMO. > And WHY did he lie (or at least greatly mislead) ? Not for some noble purpose. Not to save his life. Not for some higher principle. Not because there was any reasonable expectation that it was irrelevant to the case he was being questioned about.. No doubt it was at least a prevarication under oath, and certainly Contempt was reasonable given the circumstances. But that’s Contempt, not Perjury. _Maybe_ he lied to protect Monica. And, it was totally irrelevant to the case he was being questioned about. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/32 "2009-11-26T02:30:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _Maybe_ he lied to protect Monica. Yeah, that was it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/33 "2009-11-26T03:04:12Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/34 "2009-11-26T03:20:32Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > He didn’t get impeached for his sex life. He got impeached…and cited for contempt…and his law license suspended…because he lied under oath. He absolutely got impeached for his sex life. I’m aware of the legal justification for the impeachment. Clinton did wrong, and I have said so plenty of times. But that’s not the point: he was impeached because he did something scandalous (and yes, illegal) that his opponents could use against him. He’s responsible for his own behavior and I have not argued otherwise. But the Republicans did not _have_ to impeach him, which you said before. They did it because they could, and because they wanted to. He gave them an excuse but he didn’t force them to do it. And that’s why I said earlier that they probably would have impeached him even if he had admitted what he did. The law isn’t what mattered. What was important was, they had an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/35 "2009-11-26T03:27:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > . What was important was, they had an excuse. What the hell kinda reasoning is this ? In your opinion he did some thing " illegal". In your opinion he did something “scandalous”. And yet, still, those bastards had the nerve to impeach him ! I am not sure whether you’d make a really good or a really bad defense attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/36 "2009-11-26T04:19:50Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > What the hell kinda reasoning is this ? My reasoning is that he did something wrong, and the Republican response was far, far out of proportion to what he did. Make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/37 "2009-11-26T04:23:58Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I disagree. I don’t think the mainstream GoP congress critters really wanted to impeach Clinton, particularly on something they knew would not get him bounced out of office. Once it was known that he’d lied under oath, they really had no choice. If they didn’t, their base would have been furious. If they did, the Dems get to intentionally misrepresent the facts and whine about him being impeached for a blowjob. Rock. GoP. Hard place. They chose to do the right thing. Plus the Reps get to show the hypocracy of the Senate Dems that convicted Judge Claibourne for the exact same thing just a couple years before yet acquit Clinton of. Oh wait, the Reps failed at that part too. The Reps could have used this to utterly destroy the Democrats reputation and show them as adulterers, liars, hypocrites and protecting their own and giving the law the finger . . . but instead we have over 90% of the general population thinking that the Reps were the bad guys for impeaching him over a blowjob. My party is such a clusterfuck ☹ ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/38 "2009-11-26T04:25:09Z")
Clinton was examined by the repubs from the first day he took office. They wasted millions on the Starr commission. They investigated his entire life. It was a disgusting affair and they should have been ashamed of themselves. It was a joke, all those congressmen and senators who were having affairs while they were standing up there and berating Clinton. They were hypocritical pricks. Women are one of the fringe benefits for politicians and they have taken advantage of that forever. It was a setup. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/39 "2009-11-26T04:28:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > My reasoning is that he did something wrong, and the Republican response was far, far out of proportion to what he did. Make sense? No. So, do have some kind of personal frat boy story wherre you are speeding and a frat brother has his ass hanging out the window…and you guys pass a state trooper…and you get all bent outa shape because he had the nerve to give you a speeding ticket ? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917/40 "2009-11-26T04:38:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > My reasoning is that he did something wrong, and the Republican response was far, far out of proportion to what he did. Make sense? Sorry, my earlier reference was about Judge Claiborne. It should have been Judge Nixon. Look up his case and tell me if it was OK for him to be impeached? If so, then what was the difference between his case and Clinton’s? If not, then how come most of the Democrats in the Senate convicted him? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-clinton-avoided-impeachment-by-being-honest/518917.md?page=3)