# Could Colin Powell have stopped the Iraq war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535 "2013-03-21T14:36:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/81 "2013-03-25T15:14:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You have to keep in mind that, by definition, anyone who was saying there weren’t WMD’s in 2003 has been proven to be more credible than those saying there were. So if George Tenet honestly thought that Iraq had WMD’s we’re forced to the conclusion that Noam Chomsky was better informed than George Tenet. We know that now, but who would have known it then? If I say that the Penguins will win the Stanley Cup this year, but you say that Tampa will, when the final results come in, is a person more foolish for believing either one of us, regardless of who actually wins? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/82 "2013-03-25T15:21:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t know. It wasn’t just Bush, remember. It was Bush plus Blaire plus dozens of members of Congress, including prominent Democrats in the senate like Kerry and Clinton. They’d have to all be in on the “lie” for it to work. Again: > [@me](#): > > Bush wasn’t just one of the hoi polloi in 2002, reduced to guessing whether the NIE was believable based on some vague general notion of how credible an organization the CIA is. He had access to the actual intelligence that went into the report, and knew (or should’ve known) that much of it was flawed. Congress didn’t exactly cover itself with glory in the run-up to the war, but they didn’t have the ability to actually examine the intelligence that went into CIA reports and the like, or the ability to have the CIA, DoE, etc. check up on their sources. I don’t think even the Intelligence Committee was told about Curveball being an alcholic taxi driver, the DoE descent from the Aluminum tubes story, etc. They just had the NIE. Kerry et al. have the excuse that they trusted the CIA, and had limited resources to verify whether that trust was justified. Which isn’t to say that they were right to support the war, but I think they can validly claim it was a mistake rather then a lie. Bush and Powell don’t have the same excuse. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/83 "2013-03-25T15:35:40Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Again: > > Congress didn’t exactly cover itself with glory in the run-up to the war, but they didn’t have the ability to actually examine the intelligence that went into CIA reports and the like, or the ability to have the CIA, DoE, etc. check up on their sources. I don’t think even the Intelligence Committee was told about Curveball being an alcholic taxi driver, the DoE descent from the Aluminum tubes story, etc. They just had the NIE. Kerry et al. have the excuse that they trusted the CIA, and had limited resources to verify whether that trust was justified. Which isn’t to say that they were right to support the war, but I think they can validly claim it was a mistake rather then a lie. Bush and Powell don’t have the same excuse. Is that accurate? I thought there was a select committee in Congress that was given access to everything the President knows (about anything) but they can’t disclose it to the press or to others, but they can say “Trust me on this, the info is good.” Am I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/84 "2013-03-25T16:09:36Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Is that accurate? I thought there was a select committee in Congress that was given access to everything the President knows (about anything) but they can’t disclose it to the press or to others, but they can say “Trust me on this, the info is good.” Am I mistaken? Every Senator had access to the actual Intelligence Repots. I don’t think many took advantage of that. However, claims are being made that it was obvious the data eas bad and yet these Senators did not agree. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/85 "2013-03-25T16:36:46Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > We know that now, but who would have known it then? I’d say the CIA could have known it then. It’s their job to know things like that. And as I’ve pointed out, other individuals and organizations with less resources than the CIA has were able to find it out. Can you think of any reason why the CIA couldn’t have found the same evidence that other people found? > [@jtgain](#): > > If I say that the Penguins will win the Stanley Cup this year, but you say that Tampa will, when the final results come in, is a person more foolish for believing either one of us, regardless of who actually wins? This is a bad analogy. We’re not talking about some future event where nobody knows. The presence or lack of WMD programs in Iraq in 2003 was not some unknowable event - they either existed or they did not. It would be like the CIA claiming there’s no way of knowing who is the current holder of the Stanley Cup. And then I say it’s the Los Angeles Kings. And the CIA claims there’s no way they could have known that fact. Well, I found it out by looking it up on Wikipedia. The CIA could have done that. The CIA should at least be able to find any facts that I can find. And that’s the same rule that applied in 2003. The CIA should have been able to at least find the evidence that other people had found. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/86 "2013-03-25T16:45:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’d say the CIA could have known it then. It’s their job to know things like that. And as I’ve pointed out, other individuals and organizations with less resources than the CIA has were able to find it out. Can you think of any reason why the CIA couldn’t have found the same evidence that other people found? > This is a bad analogy. We’re not talking about some future event where nobody knows. The presence or lack of WMD programs in Iraq in 2003 was not some unknowable event - they either existed or they did not. > > It would be like the CIA claiming there’s no way of knowing who is the current holder of the Stanley Cup. And then I say it’s the Los Angeles Kings. And the CIA claims there’s no way they could have known that fact. Well, I found it out by looking it up on Wikipedia. The CIA could have done that. The CIA should at least be able to find any facts that I can find. > > And that’s the same rule that applied in 2003. The CIA should have been able to at least find the evidence that other people had found. Who ate these people you keep reffering to who lnew SH did not have WMDs? Give us names and quotes. Youe analogy with the Stanley Cup is absurd, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/87 "2013-03-25T16:53:19Z")
This is not a question of who had the facts or who didn’t. The CIA, DoD and the White House all had the necessary facts available. The real question is who interprets these facts, and who among those the President chooses to believe. The CIA had all the facts, it chose to believe some and not others and it chose to believe some were more reliable than others. Even that was not enough for Dick Cheney, who decided CIA reports were too wishy-washy, filled with weasel words like “perhaps”, “maybe” and “likely”. So he demanded the raw intelligence, gave it to his pet little group of “intelligence analysts”, and had them inject a lot more certainty into their reports, give 'em a little spine!. And Bush chose to believe this last group, probably because they were saying what he wanted to hear. The people in government chose what they “knew” because they chose which theory of reality to believe. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/88 "2013-03-25T17:29:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > In September, 2002, pretty nearly everyone “knew” that Iraq had WMD. However, after UNMOVIC re-entered the country, in November, it became increasingly clear that there were no weapons to be found. > > I see no “mistake” in Bush’s actions. I agree, but prefer to replace “knew” to many “highly suspected” that Iraq had WMD. But yes, I agree that when UNMOVIC re-entered Iraq it was a landmark moment or should have been for converting “highly suspicious” intelligence conclusions to “known” conclusions. The pinnacle of a “pre” or “post” -landmark for intelligence gathering by outside intelligence agencies such as the UK and US, occurred in the middle of December 2002. This was the moment that Amir al Saadi announced publically that Iraq would allow the CIA,FBI, & US Military WMD experts to come into Iraq to search directly for any evidence of WMD or programs. To me, when the Bush Administration passed this genuine peace initiative up to get the CIA into Iraq, it renders the discussion into what our intelligence community knew and what Bush did with it sort if moot. There is also the known accommodation that the US and UK handed all the intelligence they had after December 2002 to UNMOVIC for verification. As far as we can know what UNMVIC said publically all US intelligence provided to the inspectors was discredited prior to Bush’s decision to invade in March 2003. If anyone can explain why it makes no difference or little difference to the conversation being held here on WMD intelligence, I would like to see it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/89 "2013-03-25T17:45:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I find a lot of this discussion amounts to angels dancing on the head of a pin. > > People on this message board were unconvinced by the WMD claims just based on the fact that _they were unsupported by any sort of convincing evidence_. Such evidence as was presented to the public was either quickly revealed to be a sham, or was vague, second-hand stuff. I personally found Powell’s speech to the UN amazingly, transparently unconvincing. His “evidence” was shockingly weak. > > If I and a million other ordinary Joes could tell the case was weak-ass, anyone could. Yeah, I have some military intel background, but I was years removed from any first-hand association with it by 2003 and this sort of thing wasn’t my specialty. But I know a shit intel presentation when I see one. Anyone who could read, for that matter, could see the lies falling apart. > > Now, the issue of whether Bush, Cheney and friends knew it was all nonsense, or to what extent groupthink took over and they were convincing themselves, and forcing the CIA, NSA et al. to mold their reports to fit what was expected of them, might be an interesting thing to look at if the principals would ever fess up to the inside conversations, which they won’t. But that it was a deception is beyond any sort of rational argument. And that it was a deception a reasonably intelligent person should have been able to at least strongly suspect is equally beyond rational argument. This nails it. Millions of people correctly evaluated the evidence, Joe Wilson included. And they did not have the raw data in most cases. There were several marches in several countries of over a quarter of a million people who took the day off getting paid and protested. All of that was brushed aside by people who had a duty, including Powell, to correctly evaluate the evidence. Powell was presumably trained to evaluate such intelligence. He utterly fucking failed to uphold his oath to support and defend the Constitution in favor of his duty to suck up Bush, who was clearly ignoring his own duties. All of these people, Powell, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush etc. had a duty of evaluate the evidence and come to the correct assessment of it as Joe Wilson did. All of them failed to evaluate it and failed to come to a correct assessment because they had already determined, before they took office that they would rearrange the map in the Middle East per the PNAC document, which Rumsfeld and Cheney signed. Congress failed in its duty to evaluate and correctly assess. The American people did the same. That some Americans and some members of Congress came to a different conclusion and were in the minority is cold comfort, we failed to stop it. This was a war that this country started at its own leisure. Now the sort of crap that we believe the President when he says we are in imminent danger should have gone out the window after the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. How about people do their fucking jobs? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/90 "2013-03-25T21:45:34Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > When Blix was in there and not finding anything, **the administration simply said that Iraq was hiding these weapons and shuffling them** around. That is exactly what the Administration and Powell were saying, although Dr. Blix reported no evidence of the Iraqis moving things around. Plus all weather surveillance aircraft was offered by the French to monitor all suspected sites. So do you wonder what intelligence the Bush and Blair Administration were using to make the charge that Iraq was hiding or moving things around right under the inspectors nose. And why is it wrong to demand at least an investigation into the specifics of that ‘moving and hiding’ US intelligence was? If that intelligence actually does exist, that is the intelligence that matters most for being wrong. It is why President Bush told us on March 17, 2003 that he was forced to decide in the final days of decision that it was absolutely necessary to invade Iraq. I believe we deserve to know upon what evidence or solid intelligence President Bush and Colin Powell were basing their judgment. Does anyone agree with that? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/91 "2013-03-25T21:52:28Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > This nails it. Millions of people correctly evaluated the evidence, Joe Wilson included. And they did not have the raw data in most cases. There were several marches in several countries of over a quarter of a million people who took the day off getting paid and protested. All of that was brushed aside by people who had a duty, including Powell, to correctly evaluate the evidence. Powell was presumably trained to evaluate such intelligence. He utterly fucking failed to uphold his oath to support and defend the Constitution in favor of his duty to suck up Bush, who was clearly ignoring his own duties. > > All of these people, Powell, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush etc. had a duty of evaluate the evidence and come to the correct assessment of it as Joe Wilson did. All of them failed to evaluate it and failed to come to a correct assessment because they had already determined, before they took office that they would rearrange the map in the Middle East per the PNAC document, which Rumsfeld and Cheney signed. Congress failed in its duty to evaluate and correctly assess. The American people did the same. That some Americans and some members of Congress came to a different conclusion and were in the minority is cold comfort, we failed to stop it. This was a war that this country started at its own leisure. > > Now the sort of crap that we believe the President when he says we are in imminent danger should have gone out the window after the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. How about people do their fucking jobs? I am afraid you conflating knowledge of the existence of WMDs with an assessment of the threat poses by Iraq (as well as Bush’s go it alone policy). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/92 "2013-03-25T22:25:11Z")
There is one bit of evidence that the administration, prior to the invasion, was well aware that there were no WMDs. (I suppose it could be argued that no one who knew wanted to tell Bush and burst his bubble, but that would be a different discussion for which I have never seen evidence in either direction.) When we invaded, we made no effort to secure even one suspected site of WMD storage or manufacture. Not one. Even if WMDs were merely a pretext for war, leaving actual WMD sites to fall into the hands of a resistance movement or terrorists would have been more insane than even the actions that occurred. When we went into Iraq, the military and the intelligence agencies knew that they would find no WMDs. Maybe they “hid” that information from Bush, but my personal belief would be that he knew it very well and lied to the world about his intentions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/93 "2013-03-25T22:26:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I am afraid you conflating knowledge of the existence of WMDs with an assessment of the threat poses by Iraq (as well as Bush’s go it alone policy). Well, don’t let that fear paralyze you. Ongoing development of nuclear, biological and and chemical weapons was the stated public \*causes belli \*for the war because it was a threat. See Powell’s UN speech where he lays it out. Turns out that this former Dept of Defense Chairman of the Joint Chiefs didn’t vet the information himself, or have anyone he trusted do that. That’s according to his own butt buddy Wilkerson. [Colin Powell 'was lied to and used by George Bush to add credibility to invasion of Iraq' | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357934/Colin-Powell-lied-used-George-Bush-add-credibility-invasion-Iraq.html) The evidence was “scant” according to Brent Scowcroft, who told that to Congress. He was ignored. [Colin Powell: Conned or Con-Man? – Consortium News](http://consortiumnews.com/2013/02/04/colin-powell-conned-or-con-man/) The consortiumnews article criticizes at length, and better than any post in this thread, the weakness of the evidence. In view that Cheney and Rumsfeld and the rest of the PNAC crew demanded war in 1999 for larger purposes, and that their stated 2003 WMD claims turned out to be complete shit, it is reasonable to conclude that they all really used the ginned up WMD evidence as support for their PNAC goals and methods. It is the best evidence available to explain their action in view that their stated reasons are plainly false and they should have know they were false. Yeah, they have apologists and defenders to this day, but I would never trust any of them with duties for any government. Going to war for false reasons and having other reasons not pointed to at the time is about as serious misbehavior one can have as a human being. The PNAC white paper, if treated as a confession, would have been enough to hang Japanese or German officers and politicians after WWII. German and Japanese warmongers were put to death on far less evidence of intent. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/94 "2013-03-25T22:34:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > There is one bit of evidence that the administration, prior to the invasion, was well aware that there were no WMDs. (I suppose it could be argued that no one who knew wanted to tell Bush and burst his bubble, but that would be a different discussion for which I have never seen evidence in either direction.) > > When we invaded, we made no effort to secure even one suspected site of WMD storage or manufacture. Not one. Even if WMDs were merely a pretext for war, leaving actual WMD sites to fall into the hands of a resistance movement or terrorists would have been more insane than even the actions that occurred. When we went into Iraq, the military and the intelligence agencies knew that they would find no WMDs. > > Maybe they “hid” that information from Bush, but my personal belief would be that he knew it very well and lied to the world about his intentions. The number one military priority was securing the oil fields and facilities. Everything else, museums, military bases, supposed WMD sites, was ignored as a top priority. Yes, we can reasonably infer from those actions and omissions that they knew the WMD stuff was complete bullshit and their reasons were economic and political. This did have the advantage of actually securing the oil fields, preventing huge economic and environmental damage to Iraq, but it had little to do with the stated military or political priorities. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/95 "2013-03-25T22:40:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Your analogy with the Stanley Cup is absurd, btw. Explain why you think this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/96 "2013-03-25T23:02:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Explain why you think this. Are you serious? You can look up the current holder of the Stanley cup on their web site, or wikipedia or any number of places and get a definitive, factual answer. Where, in Feb of 2003, could you “look up” the status of SH’s WMD programs and get a definitive, factual answer? We’re not talking about now. We’re talking about prior to the invasion. Still waiting for a list of names of these people, of whom there are “plenty” who knew there were no WMDs and the quotes from them saying so. I mean, it’s just like looking up the current holder of the Stanley cup title, so it should be easy, right? Why don’t you stop dancing around the subject and back up your claim? This is at least the 3rd time I’ve asked. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/97 "2013-03-25T23:56:15Z")
> [@](#): > > "Where, in Feb of 2003, could you “look up” the status of SH’s WMD programs and get a definitive, factual answer? We’re not talking about now. We’re talking about prior to the invasion. > > Still waiting for a list of names of these people, of whom there are “plenty” who knew there were no WMDs and the quotes from them saying so." -John Mace #096 03-25-2013 07:02 PM 084p0702. The first name I would mention is Amir al Saadi/ Sadi. His offer on behalf of Saddam Hussein in mid-December 2002 was a chance for the CIA to get first hand investigations and enough knowledge to open Iraq up just like a Wikipedia website. > [@](#): > > Baghdad fought back in the highly charged propaganda battle with the US and Britain yesterday by inviting its arch-enemy, the CIA, to enter Iraq and track down the country’s elusive weapons of mass destruction. > > The Iraqi offer of unhindered access to US intelligence agents came after intensive pressure from Washington that made war early in the new year appear almost inevitable. > > At a press conference in Baghdad yesterday, General Amir al-Sadi, scientific adviser to the president, issued a challenge to the US and British intelligence to offer up hard evidence that Iraq has any biological, chemical or nuclear weapons. > > “We do not even have any objections if the CIA sent somebody with the inspectors to show them the suspected sites,” Gen Sadi said. > > -Excerpts from: Iraq hits back with CIA offer; US agents invited to search for weapons; Ewen MacAskill, Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington and Richard Norton-Taylor; The Guardian, Sunday 22 December 2002 19.29 EST. Why didn’t Bush take Hussein up on his offer? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/98 "2013-03-26T00:04:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why don’t you stop dancing around the subject and back up your claim? This is at least the 3rd time I’ve asked. The evidence was “scant” according to Brent Scowcroft, who told that to Congress. He was ignored. [http://consortiumnews.com/2013/02/04...ed-or-con-man/](http://consortiumnews.com/2013/02/04...ed-or-con-man/) Wilkerson and Powell thought it was weak too. Why don’t you stop asking for a signed confession for war crimes and accept Powell’s admitting a “blot”. That is the most he is going to do. And as a matter of history, yes, you people look up the Stanley Cup winner for any year, and people can also look up the admission and what they knew from Wilkerson’s statements. They are things that people can look up. People can also deny that they are true and that you need to find better evidence, that that isn’t in good faith. When they admit it, they admit it. To get more, you would need examination under oath by an adverse counsel, which is what you are demanding for an interpretation of history that records Powell as a weak-willed but knowing dupe. It is entirely fair to depict Powell as going along regardless of the facts. Read how skeptical Wilkerson and Powell were when putting together the UN speech. None of that came through at the UN. Powell was an advocate who didn’t believe almost every single thing he was saying, now giving the excuse (through Wilkerson) that he was taken in a few hours before the UN speech by the CIA’s false claims that they had a high Al Queda source that had confirmed WMD under threat of torture. That one analyst interrogation holds up far less well than the Gulf of Tonkin incident and resolution. Johnson had the resolution in his pocket waiting for the right “incident” and Powell had his speech ready to go. If you apply the same scrutiny to the intelligence we have in retrospect on Powell’s intentions that we did to WMD, well, you would be forced to conclude that Powell had the WMDs of intent. The evidence is far, far more weighty on Powell’s failure to do his duty than there ever was that Iraq still have ongoing WMD programs. All of the WMD evidence was made up. All except the last minute evidence was known to be worth no weight. Wilkerson, Powell’s mouthpiece, gives us that information and insight that he and Powell knew that at that time. That’s why Powell calls it a “blot” on his record. Powell isn’t going to call it a war crime. He’s going to call it a “blot” because there are people out there who will always be willing to skew how they view evidence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/99 "2013-03-26T00:06:50Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The first name I would mention is Amir al Saadi/ Sadi. His offer on behalf of Saddam Hussein in mid-December 2002 was a chance for the CIA to get first hand investigations and enough knowledge to open Iraq up just like a Wikipedia website. > > Why didn’t Bush take Hussein up on his offer? I will concede that there were countless Iraqi officials offering up such a statement about the lack of WMDs, including SH himself. Now, can we confine ourselves to people not in the employ of SH? I thought it was a given that we were looking for people not aligned with SH, but going forward, let’s keep that in mind. OK? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535/100 "2013-03-26T00:48:16Z")
> [@](#): > > In Tenet’s own words: {cite} “In retrospect, we got it wrong partly **because the truth was so implausible** ,” he writes. {cite} -by John Mace #063 03-24-2013 09:56 PM 083p0956 per the following link to NYTimes. [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/washin....&pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/washin....&pagewanted=all) I’m not buying Tenet’s line of excuse-making that is being promoted above. Tenet’s job was to get to the truth, not sit around being overwhelmed by how implausible the truth might be because of some prevailing mindset that was dominating the political culture of the times. Tenet has never been asked why he didn’t take Amir al Saadi up on this offer. > [@](#): > > “We do not even have any objections if the CIA sent somebody with the inspectors to show them the suspected sites,” Gen Amir al Saadi/Sadi December 2002 in New York City at the UN [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-colin-powell-have-stopped-the-iraq-war/653535.md?page=6)