# Could dark matter be alien constructs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 7, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594 "2018-10-07T02:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/21 "2018-10-08T21:31:46Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The failure to identify dark matter is becoming as embarrassing as the luminiferous aether. And yet no scientists have postulated that it’s alien artifacts! What a scandal! We should definitely leave the guesswork to people who don’t know anything about dark matter. They’ll still be totally wrong, of course, but in much more entertaining ways. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/22 "2018-10-08T21:46:50Z")
And to add, the hypothesis of Aether led to experiments to figure out the properties of Aether, which in turn led to the disconfirmation of Aether. So the theory wasn’t embarrassing, it was just wrong. The problem for Dark Matter is that if it really is weakly interacting massive particles, it will be very difficult to come up with experiments to confirm it. However, it is a lot easier to come up with experiments that will disconfirm other explanations for Dark Matter. For example, alien megastructures composed of baryonic matter are ruled out, because if they existed they’d block light. Of course one of the first hypotheses about Dark Matter was that it was regular matter, just cold. But that theory was rejected, because it didn’t match our observations. WIMPs might not be the answer, but we’ve ruled out lots of other explanations, and haven’t been able to rule out WIMPs, so that’s why they are the current favorite hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/23 "2018-10-08T22:28:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, **Stranger** , you didn’t get that reference? [Start reading; you’ll enjoy it.](http://www.schlockmercenary.com) Actually he was quoting an earlier work: [Xeelee Sequence - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeelee_Sequence) If you don’t have a couple of spare man-weeks to catch up on the entire history of Schlock Mercenary, the part with the near-destruction of the galaxy begins HERE: [Schlock Mercenary - Thursday 25 Nov 2004](https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-11-25) (Catching up from this point will only take a few man-days.) To those tuning in late: Captain Tagon just got killed (he gets better) in an operation which also destroyed most of Sargent Schlock’s mass, resulting in his losing most of his memory and intellect (he gets better) and severely injured Lt. Ellen Foxworthy (she gets better too). It also p.o.'d a rival mercenary band by getting _their_ captain killed. Commander Kevyn Andreyasn is serving as acting captain The Toughs go on vacation to have a memorial service and figure out what to do next, but the rival mercenaries, plus the genocidally xenophobic alien Ob’Enn (a.k.a. the psychobears) won’t leave them alone, include targeting Tagon’s retired father for blood vengeance. See [Schlock Mercenary - Tuesday 4 Jan 2005](https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2005-01-04) for a longer list of everyone who’s p.o.'d with the Toughs at this point (with more to come). Events in the galactic core start to effect Schlock & co. in [Schlock Mercenary - Monday 10 Jan 2005](https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2005-01-10). While an attempt to at least get paid for accidentally killing the rival mercenary captain doesn’t exactly go as planned, which leads up to [Schlock Mercenary - Sunday 30 Jan 2005](https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2005-01-30). Kevyn attends a convention of physicists at a hotel who are discussing the strange anomalies being detected, while the Toughs serving as his bodyguard have some fun. Kevyn and the physicists figure out that bad, bad things are happening. But meanwhile even more people pissed off with the Toughs show up. Fortunately a friend shows up so Kevyn can come up with a way to save the galaxy, involving changing the past and most of what you’ve read here. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/24 "2018-10-08T22:37:46Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > And yet no scientists have postulated that it’s alien artifacts! What a scandal! > > We should definitely leave the guesswork to people who don’t know anything about dark matter. They’ll still be totally wrong, of course, but in much more entertaining ways. I’m not sure what you are getting at, but the possibility that dark matter is alien artifacts has been considered by scientists, including Freeman Dyson, and this hypothesis has been rejected because of observational data. The possibility that this missing mass has been accidentally or deliberately hidden was an intriguing one when it was first conceived, but it isn’t consistent with observations. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/25 "2018-10-08T23:16:45Z")
But, is the dark-matter side of the universe well-populated with midichlorinos? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/26 "2018-10-08T23:31:28Z")
I think dark matter is largely made up of unidentified waste material from the annihilation of 99.99% of collisions between matter and antimatter. That’s the only way my brain can make any sense of it. Even though I know that’s not it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/27 "2018-10-08T23:36:32Z")
I’ve observed before that, the smaller the number of people who will get any given joke, the funnier it is to those who do get it. Which, of course, means that **eschereal** ’s post there is hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/28 "2018-10-09T00:15:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve observed before that, the smaller the number of people who will get any given joke, the funnier it is to those who do get it. Which, of course, means that **eschereal** ’s post there is hilarious. I was just hoping that there is no supersymmetry version of the _Star Wars_ prequels. Although maybe there is a version of _The Star Wars Holiday Special_ that is really, really good, except we’ll never be able to see it. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/29 "2018-10-09T05:21:09Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The failure to identify dark matter is becoming as embarrassing as the luminiferous aether. On the contrary; it’s pretty amazing that we can not only discover something that is not possible to detect directly, but even know much of its properties and distribution. The universe is not obligated to only present us with simple problems that can be solved within a human lifetime. There is no reason to suppose we are taking too long to fully understand this. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/30 "2018-10-09T06:37:02Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Although maybe there is a version of _The Star Wars Holiday Special_ that is really, really good, except we’ll never be able to see it. No, it’s just like gravity: the mirror-matter version still sucks. ---
**Author:** ![road\_lobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d78d45/32.png) [@road\_lobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/road_lobo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/31 "2018-10-09T07:32:48Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Dark matter is not really a thing. The only way we know it exists is because galaxies spin at rates that are not accounted for based on how much matter we can see. So something is outta wack. Isn’t dark matter also implied by galaxy filaments? ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/32 "2018-10-09T08:25:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > … it’s something that hasn’t been predicted (as Gell-Mann said when the muon was discovered, “Who ordered that?”). I. I. Rabi, actually. Gell-Mann was seven years old in 1936. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/33 "2018-10-09T15:32:29Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > On the contrary; it’s pretty amazing that we can not only discover something that is not possible to detect directly, but even know much of its properties and distribution. We haven’t so much discovered it as inferred it. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/34 "2018-10-09T15:36:19Z")
In the standard Lambda-CDM model of cosmology, Dark Matter is estimated to be 26.8% (give or take) of the universe, that would be about five times that of “regular” matter. I can’t imagine anyone, even a super civilization, that would be able to construct anything on such an astronomically massive scale. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/35 "2018-10-09T15:46:12Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > So we have two mysteries: First, where is all the matter we can’t see except by its gravitational influence? The paucity of observed microlensing now virtually rules out that it’s black holes or similarly compact astronomical bodies; while searches for weakly interacting massive particles have come up dry. Second, given the billions of years since stars and planets first formed, even rare interstellar civilizations should have colonized most of our galaxy and presumably the same in other galaxies. Could dark matter be alien habitats and machines in deep space, or is there anything that immediately shoots down this hypothesis? I’ve heard it claimed that there are reasons to believe that dark matter cannot be baryonic, or anything that used to be, but I don’t recall the reasoning. Yes…if this is all a simulation and the dark matter was put in because the programmers were just fudging things to make their model work, or maybe to provide a mystery that the folks in the simulation would have to solve in order to get the golden Easter egg and win the game… ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/36 "2018-10-10T02:25:54Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > I’m not sure what you are getting at, but the possibility that dark matter is alien artifacts has been considered by scientists, including Freeman Dyson, and this hypothesis has been rejected because of observational data. The possibility that this missing mass has been accidentally or deliberately hidden was an intriguing one when it was first conceived, but it isn’t consistent with observations. Well, even if you can eliminate one method of indirectly divining the source of the mass discrepancy, it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen in the proposed way. It just means we’re either dealing in aliens that are building out of dark matter, or are building structures that behave exactly like dark matter. > [@Jasmine](#): > > In the standard Lambda-CDM model of cosmology, Dark Matter is estimated to be 26.8% (give or take) of the universe, that would be about five times that of “regular” matter. I can’t imagine anyone, even a super civilization, that would be able to construct anything on such an astronomically massive scale. Well, again, we’d have to be imagining aliens who are building structures that would reasonably imitate dark matter or are dark matter, and therefore only interact with us through gravity. C’mon, if we’re going to imagine an alien that their only trace is their interaction with us through gravity (possibly by choice through their technology, the rude bastards) and nothing more, marshaling a great deal of the dark matter available in an even looking distribution isn’t that much more far fetched, is it? Proposition A is seriously weird, so it’s pretty hard to evaluate proposition B at that point. So, we don’t have anything to say it is alien structures, a bit to make us think it’s probably not, but we haven’t directly detected even the basic building blocks of what we’re looking for. Plus, answering it this way doesn’t really get us much closer than we are now. It’s also not really easily falsifiable as far as I can tell. If it is aliens, their structures that behave like or are made out of dark matter are going to be about as hard to detect as what we think might be non-alien manipulated dark matter. Personally, I’m looking for a more fun theory to occupy myself with until the folks who are working to directly detect dark matter come up with more conclusive evidence. This one is pretty fun, but it just seems way too easy (and a bit more weird than I’d like) than just trying to make gravity behave in a more complex way than we currently understand. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/37 "2018-10-10T04:38:55Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > We haven’t so much discovered it as inferred it. Yes, you’re right; inferred is the better word here. So…any thoughts about the rest of my comment? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/38 "2018-10-10T11:23:56Z")
Then again, literally everything we know about the Universe involves some degree of inference. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/39 "2018-10-18T19:06:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, **Stranger** , you didn’t get that reference? [Start reading; you’ll enjoy it.](http://www.schlockmercenary.com) Okay, it took me eight days, but I finally finished the archives. How come nobody showed me this before? Now I have to catch up on a week’s activity in the Pit. Bastards. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594/40 "2018-10-18T20:01:57Z")
What about quantum foam, btw? If DM is inferred through the way that it affects observed gravitational phenomena, perhaps those gravitational effects could be caused by the properties of other universes that share a brane with our universe. After all, gravity is only imperfectly understood (even relative to our understanding of the nuclear and EM forces, unless I’m mistaken). Maybe one of its properties is that it CAN interact with other universes. Is there a mathematical formula for determining the maximum number of individual bubbles that can be adjacent to one specific bubble in a blob of soapsuds? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dark-matter-be-alien-constructs/822594.md?page=3)