# Could dirigibles make a comeback? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 9, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507 "2003-04-09T06:02:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![King\_Friday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@King\_Friday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Friday)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/1 "2003-04-09T06:02:31Z")
I love watch footage of those big ol’ airships from the 30’s and 40’s and it makes me wonder if they could be used simular to an ocean liner. Of course the gondola would have to be much bigger then they were back then. I would hop on one for a month cruise around the world with stops in all over the world. On a ship, you’re only in water, on an airliner, you’re too high to see anything. Any chance of this ever happening? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/2 "2003-04-09T06:07:49Z")
There going to have to charge a lot of money to get that to work. I suppose the dirigible would be for people who want the danger of flying mixed with the slow speed of ocean travel. Despite all the plane crashes in the world and the number of people who have seen ‘Titanic’ and I think that the image of the ‘Hindenburg’ catching on fire will be tough for anyone to get past. I did meet a woman once who saw the ‘Graf Zeppelin’ flying overehad in California. She made it sound like she saw an ocean liner floating in the sky. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/3 "2003-04-09T06:26:34Z")
The Zeppelin company is still around and has recently developed a modern airship, the [Zeppelin NT](http://www.zeppelin-nt.com/). I don’t know if they’re in production yet because that page doesn’t seem to work with my browser. It’s a small airship though, about 10 passengers IIRC. > [@](#): > > I did meet a woman once who saw the ‘Graf Zeppelin’ flying overehad in California. She made it sound like she saw an ocean liner floating in the sky. That’s not far from the truth. The Graf Zeppelin was 776 ft long and the Hindenburg was 804 ft. The titanic was 882 ft, only 13% longer than the Graf Zeppelin. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/4 "2003-04-09T06:39:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by King Friday \* > **Of course the gondola would have to be much bigger then they were back then.** Don’t confuse the gondola of the present day Goodyear dirigibles with [the accomodations of a true airship like the Hindenburg or the Graf Zeppelin:](http://www.hindenburg.net/background.htm) > [@](#): > > \*\*The Titanic of its day (in more ways than one), the Hindenburg offered unparalleled luxury to the traveller. Though it initially contained 25 two-berth passenger cabins (each with a sink and a writing table), nine 2-berth and one 4-berth cabins were added in the winter of 1936-37. This made a total passenger capacity of 72. > > The stately accommodations were contained on deck A in the bottom of the ship. This deck also included a reading and writing room, a lounge (complete with a baby grand piano), the dining room, and a serving pantry. The outer sides of both the lounge and the dining room presented views of the passing scenery through panoramic windows. > > Deck B contained toilets and a shower, the kitchen, crew quarters, a bar, and a pressurized smoking room (that had to be entered through an air-tight door).\*\* ---
**Author:** ![King\_Friday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@King\_Friday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Friday)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/5 "2003-04-09T06:46:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fear Itself \* > \*\*Don’t confuse the gondola of the present day Goodyear dirigibles with [the accomodations of a true airship like the Hindenburg or the Graf Zeppelin:](http://www.hindenburg.net/background.htm) \*\* What I meant by that is that if you’re gonna be cooped up on this thing for days or weeks at a time, you’ll need some space. I’d also like to note that Pink Floyd, my personal favorite, toured in a dirigible on their tour in '94 (Echo’s, I think) and as luck would have it, I met the pilot at work one day a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![ChalkPit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@ChalkPit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChalkPit)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/6 "2003-04-09T07:15:10Z")
On a ‘Tomorrows World’ program on UK TV back in the 80’s they were talking about using airships for logging in rainforests. I just searched out this quote from another source. > [@](#): > > No matter how serious the effort, as long as standard methods are used > there will be tremendous soil erosion, heavy damage to juvenile trees, roads > for intruder and introduced species access, and a steadily receding line of > unimpoverished forest cover. The airship is a means to greatly lower these > impacts. It is not a magic solution but a TOOL which has not been available > to this point. With airships appropriate areas could be logged perennially > with little degradation while leaving more delicate areas untouched. While > not simple they are inherently much safer and fuel efficient than helicopters, > can be made in much larger capacities, and can be considerably less expensive > if made in-country, as had been our hope. > > ``` > I am forwarding separately specifications of our initial airship. The specific > > ``` > > aspects of logging use are of course another story, and would involve an airship > of say 75 meters length with a payload of near six tons, as proposed by Portico, > or larger as appropriate. I would ask that if possible you could “spread the > word” that this is an unexplored avenue in forest conservation. Not sure how far this idea has been taken though. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/7 "2003-04-09T07:16:47Z")
Airships are pretty hard to control, especially in storms and windy conditions. Contrary to what many people would assume, the Hindenburg was not the worst airship disaster ever. It was only the fifth worst. Helium may be safer than hydrogen, but some of the worst crashes were in helium-filled airships. See a list of the ten worst airship accidents [here](http://www.aht.ndirect.co.uk/learn/Top%2010%20Worst%20Airship%20disasters.htm) I think the Akron, the Roma, and the Shenandoah were all helium-filled. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Friday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@King\_Friday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Friday)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/8 "2003-04-09T07:28:43Z")
For those interested in the Pink Floyd dirigible, see it [here](http://www.geocities.com/dinoseer/belle02.html) . ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/9 "2003-04-09T07:30:52Z")
It could happen, but it takes some early adapters to set the trend. **BobT:** > [@](#): > > I suppose the dirigible would be for people who want the danger of flying mixed with the slow speed of ocean travel. Nonononono! It’s for those who want the view from the air mixed with the comfort of a cruise ship. Forget about crossing oceans or even continents. Focus on overland travel or island-hopping - slow (well, relatively) and low, there’s a view to enjoy, and the bar is well-stocked. This isn’t travel to go places - it’s recreation. See the sun rise over Grand Canyon, watch the wildlife on the African savannah, look at Niagara Falls through the panorama windows, all the while splayed in a comfy chair and sipping a drink. If they could make a lounge with a baby piano in the thirties, think of what could be done with the materials of today. Yes, it’ll be expensive. That’ll be part of the allure. Exclusivity, see ? Get a few Hollywood honeymooners on board and see the bored people with money line up. And whatever you do, _don’t_ crash the first five years or so… ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/10 "2003-04-09T07:48:13Z")
Obtaining Helium is a problem, as the element is so light it has evaporated from the earth’s surface- it can only be found trapped underground where it has formed as a byproduct of long slow radioactive deay. Despite the fact that it is the second most common element in the universe, Helium is difficult to come by. If dirigibles are going to become commonplace, designs would probably need to use hydrogen anyway, unless helium can be imported from Jupiter. ---
**Author:** ![Phnord\_Prephect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Phnord\_Prephect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phnord_Prephect)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/11 "2003-04-09T08:09:11Z")
Who needs helium to lift? Use hard vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/12 "2003-04-09T10:21:51Z")
Iv’e heard about schemes to use vacuum ijn dirigibles- most are playing on the strength of the new fullerene materials, including schemes to make comparitively large vacuum filled microspheres of fullerene which could be contained within a relatively lightweight framework. The problem is obviously that the structure containing the vacuum must be strong enough to resist atmospheric pressure, while the total weight of the craft should be less than the displaced air. If the structure were strong and airtight enough the microspheres could be linked together and the whole dirigible might appear rigid, as if made of carbon foam… however. these magical constructions are dreams ATM, rather than reality. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/13 "2003-04-09T10:33:53Z")
Part of the problem of trying to replicate a cruise ship environment on an airship would be the sheer weight of the infrastructure; on the QEII, for example, there are ten crew members for every ~17 passengers, _tons_ of food are consumed daily, then there is all the machinery, stock and consumables related to laundry, sanitation, entertainment, shopping… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/14 "2003-04-09T10:36:55Z")
Hmmm, vacuum-filled spheres for lift (one of the very first science fiction stories used this). Imagine what would happen in the event of a catastrophe; carbon microspheres would spill out and fly upwards to the top of the atmosphere, where they would spread out… all sorts of interesting things might happen if there were enough of them. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/15 "2003-04-09T13:50:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Imagine what would happen in the event of a catastrophe; carbon microspheres would spill out and fly upwards to the top of the atmosphere, where they would spread out… \*\* One of the cyberpunk authors (William Gibson, I think) mentioned such lighter-than-air pollution in one of his books. Nanotechnology may one day make lighter-than-air material not only possible but extremely cheap, making it useful for everything from packaging to insulation. At least that was the idea in the book. By the way, [Skyship Cruise](http://www.plaza.ch/skyship/edefault.htm) in Switzerland runs airship tours using the Skyship 600 blimp. It’s one of the more advanced blimps with vectored thrust, but I believe the manufacturer (Airship Industries in the UK) is no longer around. Skyship Cruise also plan to operate a Zeppelin NT according to [this page](http://hotairship.com/database/zeppelin.html). ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/16 "2003-04-09T13:59:21Z")
I believe the book in question was “Diamond Age” - it had dirigibles made of diamond-like material containing a vaccuum used for mass air travel. Excellant book. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/17 "2003-04-09T14:12:20Z")
lighter-than-air Packaging would indeed be interesting because it would decrease the _weight_ of a parcel, but increase the _mass_ (well, the spheres themselves, not the vacuum would add to the mass). Handling such a pracel would be…_interesting_, well, it would if it were not the case that the buoyancy gained from (say) 50 litres of hard vacuum would be relatively insignificant compared to the weight of the contents of an average parcel. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/18 "2003-04-09T16:08:31Z")
Would a dirigible have a more advanced landing system than modern blimps do, i.e., more than just dropping altitude gradually until 100’ or so above the groud, dropping a whole bunch of cables and then having a lot of guys pull it over to a mast? ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/19 "2003-04-09T16:31:56Z")
The following link discusses an attempt to get the US Postal service to accept a lighter-than-air package (they felt the postal service should be paying them for the privilege): [http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i4/postal-6-4.html](http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i4/postal-6-4.html) Incidentally, Helium weighs 14% the equivalent volume of air and hydrogen 7% (and a total vacuum 0% obviously). Moving to a vacuum instead of helium would increase the total payload slightly, but it is far easier to contain helium at standard atmospheric pressure (which can be done with a flexible sheet) than a hard vacuum (which requires a rigid shell). ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507/20 "2003-04-09T16:47:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > Would a dirigible have a more advanced landing system than modern blimps do, I’m sorry, but you seem to be a wee bit confused about the terminology. Blimps are dirigibles, too. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-dirigibles-make-a-comeback/167507.md?page=2)