# Could drones make manual small arms obsolete? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2026, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306 "2026-06-30T16:32:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![IkesAcolyte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ikesacolyte/32/19012_2.png) [@IkesAcolyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IkesAcolyte)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/21 "2026-07-04T00:55:09Z")
Sure, any new technology will make waves until a solution is developed. Even now, jamming technology like the Drone Gun Mk.4 is being fielded by military and law enforcement agencies. It’s only a matter of time before it’s common place and effective. Such countermeasures won’t stop large aerial drones like the MQ1, but it will hamper FPV drones in CQC environments pretty effectively. And until then, equipping troops with a shotgun and training in trap shooting will suffice in a pinch. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/22 "2026-07-04T09:40:28Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > In addition to the famous M134 “minigun” which fires 7.62mm, there was an experimental XM214 “microgun” which fired 5.56. What if we took that down further? About the smallest centerfire cartridge currently extant is the 4.6x30mm HK, used for personal defense weapons. Develop a gatling gun for it and include tracer rounds. Is this meant to be a man-portable anti-drone weapon? The problem with at gatling guns that makes them impractical as man-portable weapons is the weight of the ammo and energy source and rate of fire. Even with smaller caliber rounds, “Old Painless” would require carrying thousands of rounds of ammo which it would burn through around 1000 per minute or more and a giant battery pack to spin the barrels. > [@IkesAcolyte](#): > > People have been saying that infantry are obsolete since the end of WWII. “Tanks will replace soldiers,” then “planes will replace soldiers,” “helicopters will replace soldiers,” and so and so forth. And yet, 11Bullet-catchers are still as present as ever in modern militaries. “Drones will replace soldiers” is just the newest resurgence of the same idea that somehow new technology will completely replace infantry on the battlefield. Because at the end of the day, tanks, planes, helicopters, and drones can’t occupy land. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/23 "2026-07-04T12:47:38Z")
> [@IkesAcolyte](#): > > Even now, jamming technology like the Drone Gun Mk.4 is being fielded by military and law enforcement agencies. Within a year of those being widespread, autonomous drones (which don’t need to communicate and hence can’t be jammed) will become widespread. The biggest impact of the jamming will be the loss of the propaganda value in publishing the videos. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/24 "2026-07-04T14:59:32Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > and a giant battery pack to spin the barrels. Russian Gatling guns are gas-powered (meaning they’re driven by the pressure of the propellant gas of the round, just like gas-operated personal firearms). No external power source needed. E.g.: > **[Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-6-23](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-6-23)** > > The Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-6-23 (Russian: Грязев-Шипунов ГШ-6-23) (GRAU designation: 9A-620 for GSh-6-23, 9A-768 for GSh-6-23M modernized variant) is a six-barreled 23 mm rotary cannon used by some modern Soviet/Russian military aircraft. > The GSh-6-23 differs from most American multi-barreled aircraft cannon in that it is gas-operated, rather than externally powered via an electric, hydraulic, or pneumatic system. > The GSh-6-23 uses the 23×115 Russian AM-23 round, fed via linked cartridge belt or ... It’s a design choice. External power is not an objective requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/25 "2026-07-04T15:02:26Z")
Of course if you have to make the propellant charges of each cartridge huge just to power the gun, in the end you’re not saving much weight. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/26 "2026-07-04T15:06:26Z")
This one uses a dog-standard Russian .50 cal bullet, but that is indeed a fairly high-powered round. > **[YakB-12.7 machine gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YakB-12.7_machine_gun)** > > The Yakushev-Borzov YakB-12.7 mm (Russian: Якушев-Борзов ЯкБ-12,7) is a remotely controlled 12.7×108mm caliber four-barrel rotary heavy machine gun developed by the Soviet Union in 1973 for the Mil Mi-24 attack gunship and low-capacity troop transporter, with 1470 rounds, which can also be mounted in GUV-8700 machine-gun pods with 750 rounds. It has a high rate of fire (4–5,000 rounds per minute) and is also one of the few self-powered guns of the Gatling type (i.e. it is gas-operated, rather On... Useful for point defense against larger drones (Shahed/Geran type). ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/27 "2026-07-04T16:56:48Z")
Small Arms ammunition will always be cheaper than drones. ---
**Author:** ![ricepad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@ricepad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricepad)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/28 "2026-07-04T17:08:21Z")
Isn’t this basically the context of _The Terminator_, where the machines figured out they didn’t need humans, so they employed bots and drones to take humans out? I can see a time when artificial intelligence gets good enough that drones could be close to 100% autonomous and cheap enough to produce to swarm the battlefield. I think there will always be a place in warfare for meatware toting small arms, but less and less in the future. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/29 "2026-07-04T17:48:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Because at the end of the day, tanks, planes, helicopters, and drones can’t occupy land. The technology for quadcopter-type drones to occupy land is not too far off though, no? Occupying checkpoints and rural areas would be possible, but not cities. It comes done to the population density vs. the number of drones. Until then, a hybrid of humans + drones could cover a lot of situations. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/30 "2026-07-04T20:15:33Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Small Arms ammunition will always be cheaper than drones. Drones will always be cheaper (financially and morally) than human soldiers. I thought in the war in Afghanistan, it was costing the military something like a million dollars per year per human soldier. Half a million per year in Iraq. And you can attach small arms to drones. Drones can function in the air, on land or in the sea. Ukraine is using land based drones with small firearms attached to them. The TW 12.7 has a 50 caliber browning machine gun attached to it but they can also use rocket launchers, 7.62 rifles, 5.56 rifles, etc. It costs about $30,000 each, which is far cheaper than a human soldier. > **[Ukrainian Combat Robot Holds Frontline Position for Six Weeks in Sign of...](https://defenceleaders.com/news/ukrainian-combat-robot-holds-frontline-position-for-six-weeks-in-sign-of-growing-ugv-maturity/)** > > Uncover the significance of the UGV holds position for 6 weeks and its impact on frontline military strategies. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/31 "2026-07-04T20:19:31Z")
Six weeks is a heck of a lot of endurance. What’s that thing’s power supply? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/32 "2026-07-04T20:30:39Z")
Dunno; it’s large enough to have an internal combustion engine. Presumably it can be refueled and rearmed at need. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/33 "2026-07-04T23:51:12Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Drones will always be cheaper (financially and morally) than human soldiers. > > I thought in the war in Afghanistan, it was costing the military something like a million dollars per year per human soldier. Half a million per year in Iraq. And you can attach small arms to drones. Drones can function in the air, on land or in the sea. Ukraine is using land based drones with small firearms attached to them. > > The TW 12.7 has a 50 caliber browning machine gun attached to it but they can also use rocket launchers, 7.62 rifles, 5.56 rifles, etc. It costs about $30,000 each, which is far cheaper than a human soldier. The Ukrainian SkyFall P1-SUN drone can be produced for like $1000 and they can crank out 50,000 a month. It has a range of about 12 miles. Assume the Russians have something similar, that’s a 6 to 12 mile wide “no man’s land” just taking the cheapest tactical drones into account. What is the ROI of deploying gatling gun or rocket based air defense systems against $1000 drones)? > [@CaveMike](#): > > The technology for quadcopter-type drones to occupy land is not too far off though, no? Occupying checkpoints and rural areas would be possible, but not cities. It comes done to the population density vs. the number of drones. Until then, a hybrid of humans + drones could cover a lot of situations. I’ll have to see if I can find the link to a video I saw of a couple Ukrainian solders sneaking up behind and disabling a Russian drone that was sitting on the ground. > [@gnoitall](#): > > This one uses a dog-standard Russian .50 cal bullet, but that is indeed a fairly high-powered round. > > [YakB-12.7 machine gun - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YakB-12.7_machine_gun) > > Useful for point defense against larger drones (Shahed/Geran type). 100 round box of .50 ammo weighs 40 lbs and a the YakB shoots through that in 2 seconds, Not to mention the kick any gatling gun will have firing 1000 rounds per minute at any caliber. It’s not a man-portable weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2026, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/34 "2026-07-05T01:30:32Z")
Of course a 12.7mm autocannon has a hell of kick. That’s why I postulated something that shoots much, much smaller bullets. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2026, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/35 "2026-07-05T01:34:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’ll have to see if I can find the link to a video I saw of a couple Ukrainian solders sneaking up behind and disabling a Russian drone that was sitting on the ground. No you’re right. I was thinking in terms of autonomous drones (which are technically possible, but not cheap or practical) and projecting that functionality onto current drones (which need a human operator). Dumb mistake on my part. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2026, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/36 "2026-07-05T01:55:32Z")
I mean, humans can sneak up on humans from behind sometimes, too. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2026, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/37 "2026-07-05T02:04:41Z")
This is happening right now in Ukraine, except the drones are controlled via km-long optical fibres and so utterly proof from jamming. The battlefields are now [festooned with fibre](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/bird-nests-fibre-optic-cables-show-wars-impact-ukraine-2026-06-30/) like huge spiderwebs. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2026, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/38 "2026-07-05T02:18:24Z")
Nah, you can still jam those, too, by cutting the fibers. Ukraine is probably working on weapons and tactics for that right now. Russia really should be doing the same, but they’re not nearly as adaptable as Ukraine is. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2026, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/39 "2026-07-05T02:53:41Z")
Make drones numerous and cheap enough and you could simply develop their autonomous programming by genetic algorithm; more or less, the ones that work and accomplish their goals get copied and modified until they’ve developed insect-like intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2026, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306/40 "2026-07-05T06:26:12Z")
Unleash swarms of autonomous killbots onto the battlefield! What could possibly go wrong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-drones-make-manual-small-arms-obsolete/1031306.md?page=3)