# Could gun advocate states be fought this way? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 3, 2022, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879 "2022-05-03T13:39:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/21 "2022-05-11T13:38:42Z")
Is there a reason why you selectively quoted, and didn’t use the whole sentence I posted, substantially changing the meaning of it? The only “poison” is in your choice to misrepresent me. Anyway, you claimed that it was “just” a way to collect money, and solves nothing. You are wrong. Registering guns would make it much easier to trace the source of guns in the hands of criminals, and prosecute those who provide them. So long as guns are not registered, I can sell my collection to anyone I damn well please, and be pretty sure to not face any consequence. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/22 "2022-05-11T13:43:25Z")
Why do you think the gun industry lobby is so vehemently against registration? It is bad for their bottom line if they cannot sell to criminals/terrorists/rogue states through various loopholes. Nice how they can get “normal” folks to do their advocating for them. FUD really is the good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/23 "2022-05-11T13:57:46Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > It is bad for their bottom line if they cannot sell to criminals/terrorists/rogue states through various loopholes. And if criminals have guns, the law abiding citizens need to have them as well. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/24 "2022-05-11T19:17:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, are you saying that if someone plans on ever taking their gun into public, you think that they _should_ register it? That is called a “concealed weapon permit” , and yes, if you carry a gun in public, without such a permit (hunting in areas, police, etc aside) you can be arrested. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > But of course gun registration won’t do anything so long as gun advocates are in favor of ensuring that they can sell guns to criminals without any personal consequence. And what has that have to do with Gun Registration? Are you talking about have all gun transfers be required to have a background check, as in CA? That is exactly what I have been pushing for- other than some exemptions, such as a gift to a family member, to law enforcement, etc, I think all private transfers be required to have the same background check as when you buy a gun from a dealer. Not to mention gun advocates want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals even more that non gun owners. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Registering guns would make it much easier to trace the source of guns in the hands of criminals, and prosecute those who provide them. The Supreme Court ruled that criminals do not have to register their guns. And selling a gun to someone who turns out to be a criminal is not a crime. Now, yes, I am in favor of all sales requiring a background check, but there can’t be a law that says if you complete a lawful sale to someone whose background check comes out clean, and that person later commits a crime, the dealer is held responsible. No one can foretell the future. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/25 "2022-05-11T19:29:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That is called a “concealed weapon permit” , and yes, if you carry a gun in public, without such a permit (hunting in areas, police, etc aside) you can be arrested. Depends on the state, of course. Here in Ohio, you can _openly_ carry a handgun without a license unless it’s a prohibited place (government building, etc.). And in one month, you’ll be able to carry a _concealed_ handgun without a license. The same is true for a number of other states. (Of course, it will be a crime to do so if you’re a felon or otherwise not allowed to possess a gun.) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/26 "2022-05-11T19:49:10Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Why do you think the gun industry lobby is so vehemently against registration? > > It is bad for their bottom line if they cannot sell to criminals/terrorists/rogue states through various loopholes. That has nothing to do with it. We’re against registration because it’s none of their damn business what guns we own. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/27 "2022-05-11T19:50:50Z")
I’ve heard the whole “if black people started carrying guns the way white people do, all of a sudden conservatives would be calling for gun control.” I just am not buying it though. In the past few years - during which, unfortunately, the public carrying of guns during protests and demonstrations seems to have become normalized - I distinctly recall black groups open-carrying weapons on numerous occasions. It didn’t seem to result in any change of heart from (white) gun advocates. Anecdotally, I used to be a member of a shooting range/gun store that was near my house, until I realized I just didn’t go there enough to justify continuing to pay for the membership. It was a really high-end shop too, it’s more like a golf pro shop/driving range, but for guns. Anyway, every time I went in there, I saw a lot of black people (both men and women.) Either buying guns, shooting guns, or bantering with the staff and other customers. It certainly didn’t seem like some kind of “white space” where they weren’t welcome. The whole thing with the Black Panthers and people freaking out about scary armed black militants was a long time ago, things have changed a lot since then. The concept of gun ownership seems like it’s become just another extension of general consumerism. And for this reason, it doesn’t serve corporate interests to limit the consumption of guns, by blacks, whites, or anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/28 "2022-05-11T20:26:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That is called a “concealed weapon permit” , and yes, if you carry a gun in public, without such a permit (hunting in areas, police, etc aside) you can be arrested. In some states, not all, a quick glance finds 13 that don’t. And _you_ are the one with a license there, not the gun. > [@DrDeth](#): > > And what has that have to do with Gun Registration? Are you talking about have all gun transfers be required to have a background check, as in CA? Background check would be nice, but at least a record of where it went would be the minimum. But, without registration, you could sell hundreds of guns to criminals, and it would be nearly impossible to effectively track and prosecute you. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The Supreme Court ruled that criminals do not have to register their guns. As many times as you trot that out, it’s a more than a bit disingenuous in that SCOTUS didn’t say that a criminal may possess a gun. It’s just that, since they aren’t allowed to have a gun in the first place. They still get in trouble over having the gun, they just don’t get in additional trouble over not registering it. > [@DrDeth](#): > > And selling a gun to someone who turns out to be a criminal is not a crime. Exactly, don’t ask, don’t tell. > [@DrDeth](#): > > but there can’t be a law that says if you complete a lawful sale to someone whose background check comes out clean, and that person later commits a crime, the dealer is held responsible. No one said that there would or should be. Where did you even get that bit of herring from? > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > That has nothing to do with it. We’re against registration because it’s none of their damn business what guns we own. They only become someone’s business once someone is harmed by one, and at that point, it’s become impossible to trace where it came from. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/29 "2022-05-11T21:57:07Z")
You are being played so perfectly you even identify as the “the gun industry”. You do realize those corporations couldn’t care less about you? ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/30 "2022-05-11T23:29:42Z")
I don’t understand why you’re taking a victory lap you’re completely wrong too with your “The only time gun laws got strengthened was when Black Panthers marched” thesis too. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/31 "2022-05-12T00:26:15Z")
I’m curious as to who you are talking to. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/32 "2022-05-12T05:45:19Z")
“Thesis” ? Sure. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879/33 "2022-05-12T07:18:05Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > The whole thing with the Black Panthers and people freaking out about scary armed black militants was a long time ago, things have changed a lot since then. I’m not so sure. A lot of white people scared about BLM protests and such seem to have [become more scared when black protestors were armed](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/26/black-americans-gun-owners-380162): > [@](#): > > Georgia Sen. Kelly Loeffler decried the “mob rule” in Atlanta [during a June 24 interview on Fox News](https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1275998299070185472?s=20), as the cable network played images of Black protesters carrying semi-automatic weapons. “We’re a nation of the rule of law and this is exactly what will happen if we defund the police,” Loeffler warned. […] > > The president and his supporters, meanwhile, defended a white St. Louis couple captured on video pointing guns at Black protesters marching by. According to Fox News, the[couple told police](https://www.foxnews.com/us/armed-st-louis-rioters-threatened-couple-guns-attorney) they retrieved their firearms after spotting armed protesters. […] > > Attempts to fan fears of armed, militant Black Americans is not a new political tactic. In 1969, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover[described the Black Panther Party](https://onlineexhibits.library.yale.edu/s/black-panther-may-day/page/the-black-panthers-and-the-fb), which advocated for African Americans to take up guns as a form of self-defense, as “the greatest threat to internal security of the country.” Concerns about the group in the late 1960s even prompted the National Rifle Association, no fan of gun restrictions, to partner with California Gov. Ronald Reagan[to pass gun control legislation](https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act) that limited open carry at the state capitol. > > Now, as the Trump administration prepares to expand its military presence to major cities, their talking points are turning into policy. After a week of violent crackdowns on protests in Portland, President Trump announced his[plans to deploy](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/22/trump-law-enforcement-chicago-albuquerque-378692) hundreds of federal law enforcement agents to Chicago and Albuquerque to “help drive down violent crime.” > > The federal government has also threatened to deploy federal forces in Baltimore, Detroit, New York, Oakland and Philadelphia — all of which have large Black populations. > > The White House has specifically cited gun violence in African American communities and the threat of damage to federal property as an excuse for the increased military presence. Maybe I’m too cynical, but I’m not persuaded that white conservatives nowadays as a group have changed so much since the days of the Black Panthers as you seem to think, when it comes to paranoia about armed Black people. I suspect that the paranoid types among them have simply shifted their perceived remedy from general restrictions on gun ownership to reliance on increased firepower and militarized aggression on the part of themselves and LEOs. That plus modern incarceration culture in the US is probably enough to reassure them that they will prevail against the “scary armed black militants”. (And, of course, it’s far more profitable for gun manufacturers and dealers, as well as for sensationalist paranoid-conservative media, than trying to restrict gun ownership would be.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-gun-advocate-states-be-fought-this-way/963879.md?page=1)