# Could Hitler have gone to heaven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2001, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662 "2001-02-08T18:35:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/1 "2001-02-08T18:35:14Z")
As an observant Jew, I have only a rudimentary knowledge of Christianity. I must admit that I’ve learned a lot from perusing various posts and discussions on the SDMB. Therefore, I would appreciate an answer from anyone “in the know” out there about the following: I was reading another thread yesterday concerning witnessing. Here is a quote from **jenkisfan** : \*\*"There are four things that God wants you to know in order for you to go to Heaven when you die. 1. That you have sinned. 2. Someone must pay your sin debt. 3. Jesus Christ died, shed His blood, and rose from the grave which paid your sin debt. 4. Jesus Christ wants to save you!"\*\* Suppose Hitler had a priest/reverend with him before he died, and he confessed his sins and expressed his belief in the above items. Would he have gone to heaven? According to Christian belief, are there any crimes so great that one simply cannot confess his/her belief in Jesus and end up in heaven? ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/2 "2001-02-08T18:40:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elshpen \* > \*\*According to Christian belief, are there any crimes so great that one simply cannot confess his/her belief in Jesus and end up in heaven? \*\* The short answer is that it depends entirely on what particular Christian denomination you’re looking at. There is a great amount of variation therein, to the point where it’s virtually impossible to say “Christians \_\_\_\_\_”. The long answer I shall leave to our more learned GD citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/3 "2001-02-08T18:51:28Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > The short answer is that it depends entirely on what particular Christian denomination you’re looking at. \*\* Whoever answers, please remember I don’t know the difference between denominations (at least, not the Christian ones). ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/4 "2001-02-08T19:01:10Z")
Well, even if he really did commit suicide, the Catholics for one don’t exclude him. From their catechism: > [@](#): > > We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own > lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. > The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives. Nice to know the Church is busy praying for Hitler! So, because of salutary repentance, no one can say for sure, except God. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/5 "2001-02-08T19:06:31Z")
I suspect most churches that suscribe to the above ritual would say, “Yes”. BUT, Hitler would have to be sincere in his repentence. And that’s not likely. However, this Chick tract spells things out rather clearly. [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0037/0037\_01.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0037/0037_01.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/6 "2001-02-08T19:08:12Z")
I remember before Ted Bundy was executed, he gave an interview saying that he had accepted Jesus as his saviour and had been forgiven all his sins and would be going to heaven. I thought, “Most New York nightlcubs have a better door policy than this heaven place!” ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/7 "2001-02-08T19:10:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* > \*\*Well, even if he really did commit suicide, the Catholics for one don’t exclude him. \*\* I forgot to amend the OP to exclude the suicide issue. That probably makes it more complicated than it already is. ---
**Author:** ![dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f19dbf/32.png) [@dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/8 "2001-02-08T19:19:05Z")
Yes he would, if he meant it, and , assuming god knows everything then god would know if he was telling the truth. The suicide is a big no no though. A VERY major part of the christian church thing is the belief that you can start over again, its never too late and all that. or… as huxley said ‘the agreed wisdom is to try make amends where possible and move on’ or something like that as its from memory. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/9 "2001-02-08T19:33:19Z")
To view the context, please visit [http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/art12.html#HELL](http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/art12.html#HELL) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elshpen \* > I forgot to amend the OP to exclude the suicide issue. Well, still the principle holds in general: > [@](#): > > ``` > 1033. "We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But > we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or > against ourselves: 'He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates > his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life > abiding in him.'[1Jn 3:14-15 .] Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated > from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who > are his brethren.[Cf. Mt 25:31-46 .] To die in mortal sin without repenting and > accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by > our own free choice. This state of definitive self- exclusion from communion > with God and the blessed is called 'Hell.'" > > ``` > > … > 1036. “The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on > the subject of Hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to > make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same > time an urgent call to conversion: ‘Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is > wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it > are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and > those who find it are few.’[Mt 7:13-14 .] Since we know neither the day nor the > hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, > when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter > with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, > like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, > into the outer darkness where ‘men will weep and gnash their teeth.’[LG 48 # > 3; Mt 22:13 ; cf. Heb 9:27 ; Mt 25:13, 26, 30, 31 46 .]” > > ``` > 1037. "God predestines no one to go to Hell;[Cf. Council of Orange II (529): > DS 397; Council of Trent (1547):1567.] for this, a willful turning away from God > (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the > Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores > the mercy of God, who does not want 'any to perish, but all to come to > repentance':[2 Pet 3:9 .] Father, accept this offering from your whole family. > Grant us your peace in this life, save us from final damnation, and count us > among those you have chosen.[Roman Missal, EP I (Roman Canon) 88.]" > > ``` > > … > 1056. “Following the example of Christ, the Church warns the faithful of the > ‘sad and lamentable reality of eternal death’ (GCD 69), also called ‘Hell.’” > > ``` > 1057. "Hell's principal punishment consists of eternal separation from God in > whom alone man can have the life and happiness for which he was created and > for which he longs. " > > ``` > > … > 1861. "Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It > results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of > the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it > causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of Hell, for our > freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. > However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must > entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God. " ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/10 "2001-02-08T20:03:23Z")
Eve wrote: > [@](#): > > I remember before Ted Bundy was executed, he gave an interview saying that he had accepted Jesus as his saviour and had been forgiven all his sins and would be going to heaven. Yep! He’s up there right now, enjoying his eternal reward of everlasting happiness. Which, for him, probably means stalking and killing other angels. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/11 "2001-02-08T20:06:39Z")
So basically, the Catholics there are saying “We don’t know who’ll wind up in heaven, because we can’t tell what a person is thinking or feeling We just know they did something wrong”? ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/12 "2001-02-08T20:38:11Z")
Even Hitler. Every sin shall be forgiven. You and I have no knowledge of the heart of Adolph Hitler. He does not seem to me to be given over to love. But it is not my office to judge his heart. If he denies the Holy Spirit, then he is lost. He places himself beyond redemption. Do not trouble yourself over the issue of divine justice. You don’t want justice. You can’t handle justice. What you want is mercy. And mercy is what you are offered. Hitler got the offer too. Even Satan can be reborn, if he willingly accepts the Lord as savior. It is pride that enslaves him, and will destroy him. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/13 "2001-02-08T20:47:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > So basically, the Catholics there are saying “We don’t know who’ll wind up in heaven, because we can’t tell what a person is thinking or feeling We just know they did something wrong”? Well, I suggest you read the [Catechism of the Catholic Church](http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html) for yourself, but as I understand the last bit I underlined, while you may judge that an act is by nature wrong, the judgement of persons must be entrusted to God. You may know an act is wrong, you may even witness someone doing such an act and thus know they have done something wrong. However, you are not then allowed to judge the person. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/14 "2001-02-08T21:14:05Z")
Well, he might have- but he couldn’t have. Why- becuase, being Hitler, he was incapable of the act of sincere repentance that salvation requires. Note- he did not even ASK for salvation. If Hitler had been capable of that sort of sincere repentance- he would not have been “Hitler”. Hitler is currently enjoying a molten sulfur hot tub as we speak. I also doubt that Bundy, who was a sociopath, was also capable of “repentance”. Altho he was certainly capable of LYING about repentance. Eve- no doubt there are folks who also have lied about getting into Studio 54(or whatever). ---
**Author:** ![Hunnar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dec6dc/32.png) [@Hunnar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunnar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/15 "2001-02-08T21:30:51Z")
All of this comes down to “Intentions”. If Hitler belived that he was doing the “Will of God” (see; The Crusades, Inquisition, and Manifest Destiny). Then he would have nothing to be forgiven for. His acts were an abomination against Man. But if he felt he was saving Man, then what he did was justified. We are unqualified to judge his Intentions only his Actions. But you cannot judge one without the other. Lo and Behold, the Bane of Law. We would like to think that in a similar situation we would behave differently, but would we really? Situation: You discover that a person in a major American city (pick the one you are most familiar with) has contracted an airborne strain of Rabies/Anthrax/Ebola/whatever. It is incurable, it is 100% fatal, and the prevailing winds will carry it worldwide in five days even if the city is sealed. Your Options: A. You can sterilize the city with a thermonuclear detonation. Death toll 3 million B. You try to help the dying, find a cure, hold a telethon. Death toll 6 Billion +/- Your Intentions- If you chose “A”, you are a hero and savior of the world. If you chose “B” you are the “Bringer of Death” and the destroyer of the world because you could have stopped the plague but chose not to. It is the **Intentions** of our **Actions** that define the purity of our souls. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/16 "2001-02-08T21:33:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > **Well, he might have- but he couldn’t have. Why- becuase, being Hitler, he was incapable of the act of sincere repentance that salvation requires. Note- he did not even ASK for salvation. If Hitler had been capable of that sort of sincere repentance- he would not have been “Hitler”. Hitler is currently enjoying a molten sulfur hot tub as we speak.** DOes this come from some denomination’s official theology? I have never heard of such a thing from any mainstream Christian denomination, and in fact it sounds more than a little circular. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/17 "2001-02-08T21:34:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > \*\*Well, he might have- but he couldn’t have. Why- becuase, being Hitler, he was incapable of the act of sincere repentance that salvation requires. Note- he did not even ASK for salvation. If Hitler had been capable of that sort of sincere repentance- he would not have been “Hitler”. Hitler is currently enjoying a molten sulfur hot tub as we speak. > > I also doubt that Bundy, who was a sociopath, was also capable of “repentance”. Altho he was certainly capable of LYING about repentance. > > Eve- no doubt there are folks who also have lied about getting into Studio 54(or whatever). \*\* Please tell me this is just sarcasm. Or, how do you know? And do tell, what is your definition of repentence? ---
**Author:** ![hapaXL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/94ad74/32.png) [@hapaXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hapaXL)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/18 "2001-02-08T21:34:38Z")
this was the very question that finally pushed me into atheism. what is supposed to happen to the saintly atheist? ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/19 "2001-02-08T21:41:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hapaXL \* > \*\*this was the very question that finally pushed me into atheism. > > what is supposed to happen to the saintly atheist? \*\* From your post I take it you are asking what happens to a former Christian turned atheist. (If not, I’m sorry I’m reading this into your post.) A person will go to Heaven if they at one point in their life became a true Christian. _If we believe not, yet **he abideth faitful:** he cannot deny himself._ Second Timothy 2:13. Once we get saved we become a part of the body of Christ (The entire Book of Romans stresses this point) and Christ isn’t going to send Himself to Hell. Our salvation doesn’t depend on our faithfulness or our righteousness, but rather on God’s faithfulness and His righteousness. So a true Christian goes to Heaven regardless if s/he deserves to or not. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662/20 "2001-02-08T21:47:27Z")
Please insert a bold, italicized “h” in the word “faitful” in my last post. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-gone-to-heaven/53662.md?page=2)