# Could Hitler have succeeded in World War II if… **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 26, 2023, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666 "2023-03-26T04:06:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/141 "2023-04-18T21:58:12Z")
Over the course of many days, yes. But you are correct. The US had the ability to destroy a city over a period of days, and it had the ability to deploy one bomb that could do it in seconds. Why showcase that bomb on a city? Why not at least try to avoid that? I truly never have understood it. Probably war fatigue and extreme hatred for the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/142 "2023-04-18T23:00:56Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > Why showcase that bomb on a city? Because that’s the most accurate way of making sure your enemy knows (and you can prove to yourself) that you can actually destroy a city with one. > [@WellHelloThere](#): > > Why not at least try to avoid that? Because it’s WWII, today ends in a y, and your air force has been regularly bombing cities into oblivion for a couple of years at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/143 "2023-04-18T23:29:41Z")
The problem is the Japanese still weren’t sure about surrender after the first atomic bomb. Using it for a “demonstration” really wouldn’t have done anything since they could still argue about themselves that maybe the Americans only had a few (which was true) and maybe they could still resist. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/144 "2023-04-19T00:11:27Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Lend-lease had first been passed by Congress in March 11, 1941. It was originally meant to aid Britain, but FDR approved 1 billion bucks in interest-free loans to the USSR on on October 30, 1941. Bit of a nitpick, but this was six weeks before Pearl Harbor and the formal declaration of war on Germany, which took place on December 11. Yes, because FDR was a Anglophile, and GB was allied to Russia. If GB had not been in the war, no aid to Russia, except maybe some food or something. BTW, Khrushchev also said that Spam (etc) save the Soviet Union as all their best farming areas were under German control, they had nothing to feed their armies without aid. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > [The following view](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/lend-lease-saved-countless-lives-but-probably-didnt-win-the-eastern-front-77715c4ce0b9) has gained general acceptance. One guy with 1700 followers does not equal “general acceptance”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/145 "2023-04-19T00:27:35Z")
Try doing a general search and reading up on the subject, instead of relying on a couple of cherry-picked quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/146 "2023-04-19T00:32:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why would America aid Russia if America is not at war with Germany? Why wouldn’t they? Historically they did for the UK, after all. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/147 "2023-04-19T00:33:44Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Try doing a general search and reading up on the subject, instead of relying on a couple of cherry-picked quotes. Both Bandwagon and Appeal to authority fallacies. However, you are incorrect. Yes, the Russians have pushed hard on the idea that they almost won WW2 all by themselves, and they could have done so. That is propaganda from the kremlin, not mainstream historical thought. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/148 "2023-04-19T00:43:28Z")
What’s fallacious is dogmatically attaching oneself to a dubious, ill-supported claim, like your previous insistence that France was responsible for starting WWI. Or attacking a source instead of dealing with the facts it presents. Claims that the Nazis would have defeated the Soviets without Lend-Lease and counter-claims that such aid was insignificant are both deeply flawed. I regret that historical consensus once again eludes you. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/149 "2023-04-19T00:53:35Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What’s fallacious is dogmatically attaching oneself to a dubious, ill-supported claim, like your previous insistence that France was responsible for starting WWI. I never said that. I have stated- that WW1 had no single nation at fault, that all the European nations involved are culpable in starting it, they were all militaristic, ultra-nationalistic, warmongering , imperialist colonial nations. Yes, of those perhaps France- like _The Sleepwalkers_ agrees- perhaps slightly more culpable. But they were _all_ responsible for starting WW1. if Stalin himself claimed it. then I accept that. There is no “historical consensus” on this subject. Your opinion is not the consensus. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/150 "2023-04-19T01:32:07Z")
No, that is not true. Strategic bombing did not obliterate cities in one minute the way these weapons did.There is no reason a “demonstration” of the first nuclear weapon in war had to occur over a city. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/151 "2023-04-19T01:35:41Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > No, that is not true. Strategic bombing did not destroy cities. You are wrong: > **[Bombing of Tokyo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo)** > > Second Sino-Japanese War > The Bombing of Tokyo (東京大空襲, Tōkyōdaikūshū) was a series of bombing air raids launched by the United States Army Air Forces during World War II. Known as Operation Meetinghouse, the raids were conducted by the U.S. military on the night of 9-10 March 1945, and were the single most destructive bombing raid in human history. 16 square miles (41 km2; 10,000 acres) of central Tokyo were destroyed, leaving an estimated 100,000 civilians dead and over one million homeless. T... > [@WellHelloThere](#): > > Over the course of many days, yes. But you are correct. The US had the ability to destroy a city over a period of days, You are wrong about this, too. The Tokyo bombing happened overnight. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/152 "2023-04-19T01:42:45Z")
You have me there. My main thrust in this thread has been that the US should have tried harder to avoid mass casualties from the atomic bombs before dropping them. I don’t think the firebombing of Tokyo is really for or against my original point, but you did correct me so you have that going for you. Better that the US had done better ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/153 "2023-04-19T01:51:04Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > You have me there. My main thrust in this thread has been that the US should have tried harder to avoid mass casualties from the atomic bombs before dropping them. I don’t think the firebombing of Tokyo is really for or against my original point, The point is that the atomic bomb was not some uniquely destructive force that created mass casualties that were entirely new to the war. The bomb was just a faster way to deliver the same sort of damage that was already being delivered. The US didn’t try harder to avoid blowing up Japanese cities because by that point they’d been blowing up Japanese cities for years. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/154 "2023-04-19T01:52:00Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > Strategic bombing did not destroy cities. Ehh, Dresden, Rotterdam, Cologne, Wesel, and Tokyo would most likely disagree. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/155 "2023-04-19T01:53:15Z")
It was the type of weapon that could scare someone into submission. They chose to kill a lot more people than were necessary to showcase it. Twice. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/156 "2023-04-19T01:54:14Z")
One bomb did not do that to those cities. There is a difference here. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/157 "2023-04-19T01:56:11Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The Manhattan Project was insanely expensive for an undamaged country 5x Nazi Germany’s size. It cost less than the development of the plane that dropped it. The USA had no problem at all affording it. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/158 "2023-04-19T01:56:36Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > No, that is not true. Strategic bombing did not obliterate cities in one minute the way these weapons did.There is no reason a “demonstration” of the first nuclear weapon in war had to occur over a city. No, actually we used it twice in actual combat and a portion of the Japanese government _still wanted to fight on_, engaging in an attempted coup to do so: > **[Kyūjō incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident)** > > Kenji Hatanaka †Jirō Shiizaki †Masataka IdaTakeo Sasaki > Kantarō SuzukiKōichi KidoShizuichi TanakaTakeshi Mori † > The Kyūjō incident (宮城事件, Kyūjō Jiken) was an attempted military coup d'état in the Empire of Japan at the end of the Second World War. It happened on the night of 14–15 August 1945, just before the announcement of Japan's surrender to the Allies. The coup was attempted by the Staff Office of the Ministry of War of Japan and many from the Imperial Guard to stop the move to surrender. > ... > [@WellHelloThere](#): > > One bomb did not do that to those cities. There is a difference here. I’m sure that is of immense comfort to the dead killed over a period of days. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/159 "2023-04-19T01:58:36Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > One bomb did not do that to those cities. There is a difference here. But they were destroyed by strategic bombing, a thing you said did not happen. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666/160 "2023-04-19T02:01:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why would America aid Russia if America is not at war with Germany? > [@Railer13](#): > > FDR approved 1 billion bucks in interest-free loans to the USSR on on October 30, 1941. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, because FDR was a Anglophile, and GB was allied to Russia. If GB had not been in the war, no aid to Russia So, you’ve answered your own question, and refuted your original point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hitler-have-succeeded-in-world-war-ii-if/981666.md?page=9)