# Could hugging a policeman cause his gun to fire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 9, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655 "2012-07-09T01:32:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/1 "2012-07-09T01:32:59Z")
I know the title will cause tittering among some, but this pertains to a tragic event just reported by the media: > [@](#): > > DETROIT (AP) - A woman celebrating the weekend before her 25th birthday was fatally shot Sunday when she hugged an off-duty police officer while dancing at a party, causing the officer’s service weapon to fire, according to police and her mother. > > Adaisha Miller would have turned 25 on Monday, according to her mother, Yolanda McNair. > > The shooting happened at an outdoor social gathering about 12:30 a.m., said police Sgt. Eren Stephens. It happened on the city’s west side. > > According to Stephens, the woman “embraced the officer from behind, causing the holstered weapon to accidently discharge.” The bullet punctured Miller’s lung and hit her heart, and she died at a hospital. > > Stephens said the Detroit officer will remain on administrative duties while authorities investigate the shooting and report their findings to the Wayne County prosecutor. The officer’s name was not released. > > “For this to happen to her, whether they want to call it freak accident or mistake in judgment, it should have never happened to my child, and there’s nothing I can do to get her back,” McNair told WDIV-TV. > > McNair said her daughter was out to mark her upcoming birthday. > > “All she wanted to do was enjoy the weekend for her birthday,” the mother said. “She had every right to enjoy turning 25 and look beyond that.” [http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120708/D9VT1JTO1.html](http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120708/D9VT1JTO1.html) Personally, I find it inconceivable that such an accidental trigger pull could be set off by the simple pressure of a hug. Most officers that I knew carried weapons in holsters that were basically designed to prevent accidental discharge and unauthorized manipulation of the weapon by someone other than the wearer. So my question to those of you more familiar with the current crop of handguns most likely carried by police officers, is such a thing even possible? If so, under what circumstances (gun, holster, type of manipulation) might it happen? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/2 "2012-07-09T01:36:04Z")
The gun would have to be pointed backward and up to hit the heart/lungs of someone directly behind. The trigger would have to be exposed and something in contact for it to be activated. I think there was some unsafe gun handling involved. ---
**Author:** ![core\_dump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@core\_dump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/core_dump)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/3 "2012-07-09T01:40:51Z")
Doesn’t really matter what _most_ officers carry or what _most_ holsters will prevent, all that matters is what _this_ equipment was. And that we don’t know. I agree with runner pat, the location of the wound makes this sound awfully suspicious. I’ll give the officer the benefit of the doubt and assume that he wasn’t playing with the weapon. At 12:30am with a female involved it’s possible they were doing something more than dancing and the department thought it was nobody’s business what was really going on. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/4 "2012-07-09T02:21:39Z")
Not what I assumed this thread was about. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/5 "2012-07-09T02:23:54Z")
Guns don’t accidentally fire when dropped, banged, hugged, left in hot vehicles etc. They do fire when you pull the trigger. That sounds obvious but the public and the media is filled with false reports of guns ‘that just went off’. Guns are remarkably stable until the trigger causes the firing pin to hit the primer. I don’t know how such a thing can happen based on the story. There has to be more to it. As noted, guns are carried pointed towards the ground so any accidental discharge should have hit the person carrying it in the leg or the ground itself. Any other speculation isn’t worth going through because the story obviously isn’t credible just based on the details that were left out. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/6 "2012-07-09T02:27:47Z")
There [are](http://garritysgunleather.com/Shoulder0055.jpg) [shoulder](http://www.dlsports.com/holster_dual_j_frame_revolver_shoulder/pic_2008_02_14_jx2holsters_med.jpg) [holsters](http://aecincorp.com/images/h19s2.jpg) that point the weapon backwards, some even point it up and backwards. In every single one I can find a picture of, the trigger is completely contained in the holster. I’m not sure how the trigger would accidentally get pulled. ---
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/7 "2012-07-09T02:52:33Z")
That’s what prompted my original post and questions. I’ve owned several shoulder holsters myself and they all covered the trigger mechanism. This “accident” sounds pretty suspiciously like horseplay or stupidity (or a combination of the two) to me. ---
**Author:** ![core\_dump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@core\_dump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/core_dump)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/8 "2012-07-09T03:19:36Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Guns don’t accidentally fire when dropped, banged, hugged, left in hot vehicles etc. They do fire when you pull the trigger. That sounds obvious but the public and the media is filled with false reports of guns ‘that just went off’. My CZ-52 will fire when decocked. I have a striker-fired junk gun (I think it’s a Davis) that will fire if you breathe on it wrong. If I was irresponsible enough to carry one of these around and something awful happened, I would just be another one of those “false” media reports, I would assume? Doesn’t the state of California require drop tests on firearm models? It would be interesting to see if they’ve rejected any. At any rate I believe a more correct statement is _ **modern** , unmodified_ firearms in _good working order_ do not generally go bang until you press the trigger. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/9 "2012-07-09T03:21:51Z")
If it’s a penile, cap & ball revolver then yes hugging a cop could set it off. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/10 "2012-07-09T03:25:08Z")
> [@](#): > > According to Stephens, the woman “embraced the officer from behind, causing the holstered weapon to accidently discharge.” OK, but what about the gun? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/11 "2012-07-09T03:28:37Z")
Strange, one article says it was in his waistband covered by his shirt and that he was dancing with his wife when the girl came up and hugged him. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/12 "2012-07-09T03:33:26Z")
No. Absolutely not. There was egregious mishandling or deliberate intent. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/13 "2012-07-09T03:45:06Z")
Do off duty officers carry loaded weapons? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/14 "2012-07-09T03:49:21Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Do off duty officers carry loaded weapons? Some depts. require their officers to carry when off-duty. Others allow it but it’s the officer’s choice. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/15 "2012-07-09T04:59:51Z")
Is there protocol on whether a round should be chambered? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/16 "2012-07-09T05:16:00Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Is there protocol on whether a round should be chambered? No idea but it would be utter foolishness to not have a round chambered. Imagine having to draw from concealment and taking the extra time to rack the slide before firing. An extra split second is an eternity in a gunfight. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/17 "2012-07-09T05:19:47Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Is there protocol on whether a round should be chambered? A gun should be carried with a round chambered, else it is useless. It is only in the movies where they cock the gun right before using it. In some movies they will do it multiple times in the same scene for no apparent reason, which means the gun is ejecting perfectly good unused rounds. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/18 "2012-07-09T05:22:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Guns don’t accidentally fire when dropped, banged, hugged, left in hot vehicles etc. They do fire when you pull the trigger. That sounds obvious but the public and the media is filled with false reports of guns ‘that just went off’. Guns are remarkably stable until the trigger causes the firing pin to hit the primer. Yes, that’s what guns are _supposed_ to be like, but some poorly made ones do go off at a bump. I recall a news story some years ago about a Chinese made rifle that would sometimes fire if someone jarred it; it was in the news because the NRA wanted importation of it to be allowed, while others were trying to ban it as unsafe. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/19 "2012-07-09T05:46:32Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > No idea but it would be utter foolishness to not have a round chambered. Imagine having to draw from concealment and taking the extra time to rack the slide before firing. > An extra split second is an eternity in a gunfight. Hmm I always thought the safety of an empty chamber won over the time needed to chamber. When on patrol, they’re not likely to need the gun in a hurry, are they? Shooting should also be a last resort. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655/20 "2012-07-09T05:48:07Z")
A [poorly made (or worn) holster](http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/) can actually pull the trigger if its moved the wrong way. With no more detail than the AP story provides there’s no way to know what happened but the story as presented is not impossible. > [@](#): > > “What the hell was that?!?” she said. It took me a half a second to realize that my gun had just gone off…on my hip…in its holster. My wife and I had just finished breakfast at our favorite café and got into the car. > > Me being the passenger, I rotated my torso to the left to fasten my seatbelt like I always do. When I straightened again, my Glock 19 discharged, blowing a 9mm hole through my pants, underwear, the leather seat and bottom of the car’s door frame. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-hugging-a-policeman-cause-his-gun-to-fire/627655.md?page=2)