# Could Jesus have understood modern English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169 "2006-04-11T00:53:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/21 "2006-04-11T16:23:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And I very much doubt Jesus knew any Latin. In his time, Judaea and Galilee had not been under Roman rule very long. If he got any non-religious education, he might have spoken Greek, which had been the language of wider communication in the Eastern Mediterranean for centuries and would remain so for centuries more. We can be quite certain Pontius Pilate would have spoken Greek fluently, all upper-class Romans did. The Sadducees almost certainly spoke it too, and the royal Herods. You beat me to it. Thank you. That Passion movie should have used Greek instead of Latin and they didn’t even use the right dialect of Latin. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/22 "2006-04-11T18:56:09Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > You beat me to it. Thank you. That Passion movie should have used Greek instead of Latin and they didn’t even use the right dialect of Latin. Well, Romans would have spoken to Romans (Pilate to his wife, soldiers to other soldiers) in Latin. Greek was what they used to (apart from scholarship) communicate with foreigners, whose own native language might not be Greek, but who knew it is a second language. Pilate would have spoken Greek to the priests, or to Herod. Kind of like English today. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/23 "2006-04-11T19:06:41Z")
Of course not. Much like Zog, he’d have to use a complex system of tapdancing and farting to communicate with us. And then, of course, someone would brain him with a golf club. Poor Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/24 "2006-04-11T19:47:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Even orthodox (small o) Christians believe that Jesus was human. Hence, he wasn’t born with any more knowledge than any other baby. He had to LEARN to walk and speak, like any other child. He had to LEARN to read and write, like any other child. Whatever languages he spoke, presumably he learned them the hard, old-fashioned way. Nope, at least according to Orthodox thought. One of the Eastern commentators – I think it was Theophylact – stated that Christ always possessed His full power and faculties, but merely chose to gradually manifest them, so as to appear as an ordinary man, at least at first. So yes, He would have understood English. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/25 "2006-04-11T19:53:55Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > One of the Eastern commentators – I think it was Theophylact – stated that Christ always possessed His full power and faculties, but merely chose to gradually manifest them, so as to appear as an ordinary man, at least at first. So yes, He would have understood English. How about FORTRAN? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/26 "2006-04-11T19:54:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Pilate would have spoken Greek to the priests, or to Herod. Not quite Herod was educated in Rome, so would have been fine talking in Latin [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod\_Antipas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_Antipas) ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/27 "2006-04-11T20:55:50Z")
> [@](#): > > How about FORTRAN? FORTRAN would be a snap, though I suspect if someone showed Him COBOL He would smite it as an abomination to the LORD. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/28 "2006-04-11T21:16:09Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That Passion movie should have used Greek instead of Latin and they didn’t even use the right dialect of Latin. What dialect were the Romans in _The Passion_ speaking? Church Latin? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/29 "2006-04-11T21:32:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What dialect were the Romans in _The Passion_ speaking? Church Latin? Yes…with thick Italian accents. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/30 "2006-04-11T21:44:43Z")
> [@](#): > > BrainGlutton: > Well, Romans would have spoken to Romans (Pilate to his wife, soldiers to other soldiers) in Latin. I thought that the educated greek people spoke greek to each other in private. Because it was a better language for that kind of conversation. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/31 "2006-04-11T21:49:36Z")
:smack: I mean educated roman people, of course ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/32 "2006-04-12T00:03:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And I very much doubt Jesus knew any Latin. In his time, Judaea and Galilee had not been under Roman rule very long. If he got any non-religious education, he might have spoken Greek, which had been the language of wider communication in the Eastern Mediterranean for centuries and would remain so for centuries more. We can be quite certain Pontius Pilate would have spoken Greek fluently, all upper-class Romans did. The Sadducees almost certainly spoke it too, and the royal Herods. I have two problems with this. The first might be a quibble with what you mean by not “very long”. Except for a 3 year period, the Romans had ruled Judea & Galilee since 63 BCE or, by the time Jesus was born, roughly the entire time the Soviet Union ruled the Ukraine and longer than it ruled the Baltic States. If the median age in that time and place was indeed 36 years, we can say it had been almost 2 full generations since these people had known any other ruler but the Romans. By the time of Jesus early adulthood it is safe to say there was no one left who remembered, even as the smallest child, Hasmonean Rule. The second is just a caution. I think in mild over reaction to the Passion Movie having JC speaking RCCPriest Latin, otherwise sensible people have gone overboard with the Latin stuff. I would be very surprised if the statement _And I very much doubt Jesus knew any Latin \*\* was accurate. Jesus spoke almost no Latin. Jesus could not converse in Latin_. OK. Greek being the everyday Lingua Franca, Latin was still the speech of Occupiers. Many of the Major Towns and places had Latin Names. The only outside of the New Testament, Tacitus and Josephus known occurrence of the name Pontius Pilate in his lifetime is in an ancient inscription in Judea - it is in Latin and it is from Jesus’ time [Pic here](http://www.bible-history.com/empires/pilate.html). Many of Herod’s extant great works had dual Latin/Greek Inscriptions. Herod’s coinmoney was in Greek but included Roman Names (Augustus, Julia, Caesar). Caesarea Maritima was a major city, very Roman with Roman Temples and games and had a population of 20,000 Jews. It would be totally shocking to me if Jesus didn’t understand the basic commands of Roman soldiers “Out of way the you filthy Preacher.”“Halt” -type stuff. Except for Greeks (and the odd town granted citizenship en mass, the path to individual citizenship included [learning to speak Latin](http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_1741502785_4/Roman_Empire.html). We know there were these people floating around Galillee and Judea. Not saying there is evidence either way. But I suggest - _Jesus might have known a smattering of Latin_ is probably closer to the probability mark than \*I very much doubt Jesus knew \*_any \*\* Latin_ is. I understand your larger points and I agree with them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/33 "2006-04-12T00:26:32Z")
Jesus likely would not have known a word of Latin. Aramaic was the language of Palestinian Jews and Greek was the lingua franca spoken even by the Romans. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/34 "2006-04-12T00:43:57Z")
Caesar is a word of Latin. Rome is word. Legion. Centurion. Antonia. Aqueduct. Palestine. Via. VArious Swords & Aramaments. You know very well this is an extreme position taken in an extreme & unsupportable in manner. I agree with your second scentence ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/35 "2006-04-12T00:58:32Z")
He “most likely” knew what [sicarii](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicarii) meant too. Of course he most likely did. \*Most likely not a word \* my aunt fanny. Too extreme. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/36 "2006-04-12T01:02:08Z")
> [@jimmmy](#): > > Caesar is a word of Latin. Rome is word. Legion. Centurion. Antonia. Aqueduct. Palestine. Via. VArious Swords & Aramaments. I know what a samurai is. And bushido and katana and teriyaki and karaoke and hentai and anime and bukkake. That don’t mean I speak Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![nd\_n8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/439d5e/32.png) [@nd\_n8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nd_n8)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/37 "2006-04-12T10:42:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I know what a samurai is. And bushido and katana and teriyaki and karaoke and hentai and anime and bukkake. That don’t mean I speak Japanese. Sure it does, you simply have an eight word vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/38 "2006-04-12T11:02:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I know what a samurai is. And bushido and katana and teriyaki and karaoke and hentai and anime and bukkake. That don’t mean I speak Japanese. You didn’t think of kamikaze, but you did think of bukkake. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/39 "2006-04-12T11:59:59Z")
:rolleyes: Oh Come on now sack up. Two of the smartest guys on the SDMB overstated, in understandable overreaction, and have painted themselves into a rhetorical corner – that it happens to be one on of the most ignorant & pendantic Dopers shouldn’t matter (i’ve done it myself 1000 times) > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I know what a samurai is. And bushido and katana and teriyaki and karaoke and hentai and anime and bukkake. Given this, which of these would a fair and intellectually honest man say is more probably accurate A. I very much doubt Brain Glutton knew any Japanese B. Brain Glutton likely would not have known a word of Japanese C. Brain Glutton spoke almost no Japanese. Brain Glutton could not converse in Japanese. My position is C. QUOTE=BrainGlutton] That don’t mean I speak Japanese. [/QUOTE] Look that is simply not fair arguing facts not in evidence. **I NEVER SAID JESUS SPOKE LATIN**. Never ever ever. I would be shocked if he did. We all agree there is no firm evidence either way - so we are dealing in probilities here. The idea that Jesus would _probably_ say “What is this [Caeseara Maritime or Palestina](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea_Palaestina) of which you speak?” or “Herod is in Tiberias?” **turns to Apostles in Confusion** is Just. Plain. Silly. FWIW [here](http://www.adath-shalom.ca/hebrew_words_history.htm#foreign_into_heb3) are the Words borrowed into Mishnaic Hebrew from this time – few and far between. But they are there. As, more than likely, they were in Aramaic and Konine Greek borrowed words in Galillee and Judea. The number of Latin words in Mishnaic Hebrew is comparatively small, in spite of the Roman conquest of Palestine (from the first century BCE onwards). Examples are ligyon (“legion”) and לבלר (lavlar - “scribe”, “clerk”), though we do not revert to a form closer to the Latin libellarius, namely ליבלר (livlar), found in manuscripts of the Mishna, preferring that which emerged in recent centuries in Europe in Mishnaic reading traditions. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169/40 "2006-04-12T12:04:23Z")
> [@jimmmy](#): > > :that it happens to be one on of the most ignorant & pendantic Dopers shouldn’t matter (i’ve done it myself 1000 times) > . Means That it happens to be one oF the most ignorant & pendantic Dopers who you are arguing with (meanining Jimmmy)shouldn’t matter Sorry – stupid and could easily be read otherways :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-jesus-have-understood-modern-english/352169.md?page=3)