# Could Kim Jong-il just be a body double? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 8, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650 "2008-09-08T18:28:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/1 "2008-09-08T18:28:47Z")
There’s a goofy [hypothesis by a Japanese](http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=627370) scholar, that claims the North Korean leader has been dead since 2003 and for the past five years it’s been various body doubles standing in for him? Looking at the pic in the links, I"m just thinking the guy’s gotten a big more saggy in the face, but I was wondering… how feasible would this really be? Could a country that is so tightly controlled and secretive actually get away with having a doppleganger take his place indefinitely? I’m not wondering so much about whether or not the Japanese scholar’s claims are true, but whether or not it would be feasible for a nation to successfully have a double paraded around as their leader for 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/2 "2008-09-09T00:12:17Z")
I have no idea if he actually died in 2003 due to diabetes as purported. Really, I just wanted to stop in and point to [this awesome documentary](http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1438428757) from [vbs.tv](http://vbs.tv) about a couple journalists getting into North Korea. After watching that, I would think anything’s possible. It’s a 14 parter, about 5 minutes to a part. Funny, mesmerizing, and sometimes sad and horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/3 "2008-09-09T01:07:25Z")
He took me to his palace and he told me his secret. ‘I am not Kim Jong Il’ he said. 'My name is Lee; I inherited the country from the previous Kim Jong Il, just as you will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from is not the real Kim Jong Il either. His name was Park. The real Kim Jong Il has been dead 15 years and hidden in a temple in Pyongyang. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/4 "2008-09-09T03:23:43Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > ‘I am not Kim Jong Il’ he said. Classic. Now I’ll have to call him the Dread Leader Kim Jong Il. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/5 "2008-09-09T04:10:53Z")
There is a convoluted method I have to use to do a Search on this Board now, but I’m glad I took the trouble to do it this time, because I was about to start a thread on this very same topic. Just to throw it in, [here](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4692472.ece) is an article in _The Times_ of London that gives some more information. Excerpt: "Kim’s poor health has been the subject of speculation for decades. The professor’s contribution is to cite Russian and Chinese sources saying he had diabetes and illnesses of the heart, liver and lungs, with depression thrown in. "There have been persistent reports that a stand-in appears for Kim at military parades and he is notoriously reclusive. He did not appear in public to receive the Olympic torch in Pyongyang on April 28. “The professor argues that no substantive policy decisions have been taken since North Korea joined nuclear disarmament talks in 2003.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/6 "2008-09-09T04:20:39Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > with depression thrown in. What do you get for the man who has everything? I think it’s widely agreed that Saddam Hussein had body doubles to throw off assassins, but even so, in almost any country but North Korea this would be totally absurd. With North Korea, it’s more “that’s bizarre, but it kind of figures.” Although it looks like the same guy in both pictures to me. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/7 "2008-09-09T04:22:57Z")
BBC TV speculated just a few moments ago about whether he’ll show up today (Tuesday) for North Korea’s 60th-anniversary parade. They’re mentioning the death rumors. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/8 "2008-09-09T13:52:09Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > "There have been persistent reports that a stand-in appears for Kim at military parades and he is notoriously reclusive. He did not appear in public to receive the Olympic torch in Pyongyang on April 28. " If he was just ill, could see using stand-ins for functions where all he does is stand there and wave. But if he’s _dead_ why would they keep the charade going? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/9 "2008-09-09T14:13:09Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > …with depression thrown in. So [ronery.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDBcGzHAt5Q) . ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/10 "2008-09-09T14:30:02Z")
[Has N. Korean leader Kim Jong Il suffered a stroke?](http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/495872) No real evidence but it’s just something to throw out there. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/11 "2008-09-09T14:53:57Z")
Who would succeed Him? ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/12 "2008-09-09T16:29:12Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > He took me to his palace and he told me his secret. ‘I am not Kim Jong Il’ he said. 'My name is Lee; I inherited the country from the previous Kim Jong Il, just as you will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from is not the real Kim Jong Il either. His name was Park. The real Kim Jong Il has been dead 15 years and hidden in a temple in Pyongyang. Can I get a franchise? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/13 "2008-09-09T16:52:35Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > If he was just ill, could see using stand-ins for functions where all he does is stand there and wave. But if he’s _dead_ why would they keep the charade going? Why indeed. Remember, his father is _still_ the official head of state even 14 years after his death. There’s no accounting for what goes on in that country. It’s like a black hole for logic. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/14 "2008-09-09T17:21:39Z")
You’d think that careful analysis and measurements of facial features and ratios and the Dear Leader’s height would produce a definitive answer. If they use a body double with uncannily similar facial features but who is a couple of inches too tall, that’d be hard to consistently hide, wouldn’t it? The regime would have to ensure that “Too-Tall Kim” isn’t exposed, by similarly adjusting the heights of the top generals and advisors (with shoe lifts, probably) who stand next to him at these events. And what of fingerprints? You’d think the Japanese, South Koreans or Americans could manage to get their hands on a current print (from a drinking glass, pen, document) and compare it to one collected years ago. Surely someone in one these countries’ intel services is doing this! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/15 "2008-09-09T17:24:39Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Who would succeed Him? Matt Cassel. The worrisome thing is that he hasn’t ruled a country since high school. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/16 "2008-09-09T17:27:35Z")
Let’s hope that “Kim Matt Cassel” isn’t so reckless as to lob the long bomb, 'cause that’d be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/17 "2008-09-09T17:33:39Z")
He’s not dead, he’s just been playing a lot of poker over at Castro’s place. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/18 "2008-09-10T03:43:36Z")
To speculate on an answer, probably not. The [BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7607513.stm) is reporting that Kim Jong-Il was notably absent from the largest (i.e. most important to attend) military parade ever, and that various intelligence services believe he has had a stroke. I have a hard time believing that a body double _wouldn’t_ be used in such a circumstance; hence, if there was no sign of Kim Jong-Il yesterday, there probably is no body double. My $.02. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/19 "2008-09-10T03:52:15Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > To speculate on an answer, probably not. The [BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7607513.stm) is reporting that Kim Jong-Il was notably absent from the largest (i.e. most important to attend) military parade ever, and that various intelligence services believe he has had a stroke. I have a hard time believing that a body double _wouldn’t_ be used in such a circumstance; hence, if there was no sign of Kim Jong-Il yesterday, there probably is no body double. My $.02. Ah ha! But then, with all the recent talk about body doubles, they may not have allowed a body double to appear, knowing that people would take that as proof of no body doubles. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650/20 "2008-09-10T03:59:40Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > So [ronery.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDBcGzHAt5Q) Rice a ronery? **Bear Nenno** Where is that bit from? I can’t place it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-kim-jong-il-just-be-a-body-double/462650.md?page=2)