# Could Larry Niven's Ringworld series be made into a movie(s)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888 "2004-06-30T14:51:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/1 "2004-06-30T14:51:45Z")
My feeling is that it would be really hard to do it justice; they would alsmost certainly fall into the trap of making the ring look too small (like they with [this](http://www.artie.com/cm/art/artists/barclayshaw/throne.jpg) illustration on the cover of _Throne_), they would CGI the puppeteers (or worse, muppetize them) and make them too comical and they would concentrate too much on things like the Kzin’s violent tendencies and appetites, at the expense of the rich texture of everything else. Could it be done? What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/2 "2004-06-30T15:08:13Z")
Actually, I think they’d concentrate way too hard on the _rishathra._ Which wouldn’t necessarily spoil it, but still. I think they could crank a few movies out of Known Space. Wouldn’t have to be Ringworld, though. They turned _The Soft Weapon_ into a Star Trek: The Animated Series show. Didn’t suck too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/3 "2004-06-30T17:31:34Z")
There’s almost no way to do it justice. In a lot of ways, the Ringworld would make a good IMAX film. But from a movie point of view, it’s kind of a disaster. They go, they crash, they explore 0.00001% of the Ringworld, and they escape. It’s sort of like Jurassic Park in that respect – not much of a plot, just oohing and aahing over the science and special effects. And we know what a box office disaster \* that \* movie was. Hmmm… let me start again. Ringworld as a book is an exploration of ideas. “Let’s assume that a Ringworld exists. What does that imply about materials? About the engineering? About the society?” It’d be hard to convey that kind of wonder in a movie – it would either plod like 2001 or Star Trek – The Motionless Picture, or it would just be a backdrop to what is essentially a Farscape episode (Louis Wu --\> Crichton, Speaker --\> Dargo, Nessus --\> Rigel) And there’s too much stuff for one movie. A mini-series or an actual series would be better. If they kept true to the book, there’d be some mighty leaden explanatory dialog going on … “Oh no, we’re about to be zapped by an X-Ray laser and crash into the Ringworld!” “Good thing we’re in a General Products hull that nothing can destroy and we have a Slaver Stasis field so we won’t be smeared to jelly even if it means we’re going to be stranded because our fusion drive got fried off.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/4 "2004-06-30T18:01:51Z")
This isn’t something I’ll say often, but I think that they could make a good movie, as long as they realized that plot isn’t too important. The _book_ is already mostly about the sweeping visuals; a movie would be very well-suited to actually _showing_ those visuals. Doubly so if they do it in IMAX format, but IMAX might still be too firmly married to documentaries in the public consciousness for that to work. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/5 "2004-06-30T19:41:50Z")
Didn’t I recently read on these boards that the SciFi channel is going to make a movie of _Ringworld_? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/6 "2004-06-30T22:10:28Z")
> [@pugluvr](#): > > Didn’t I recently read on these boards that the SciFi channel is going to make a movie of _Ringworld_? Well that answers the question. It can be made into a movie, but not a \* good \* movie. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Scene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bob\_Scene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Scene)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/7 "2004-07-01T01:41:17Z")
I’m sure I read somewhere that there was a deal in the works to make a _Ringworld_ movie but Larry Niven accidentally sank it by mentioning it in public at a bad time. I think you could make a great movie out of it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/8 "2004-07-01T04:10:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This isn’t something I’ll say often, but I think that they could make a good movie, as long as they realized that plot isn’t too important. The _book_ is already mostly about the sweeping visuals; a movie would be very well-suited to actually _showing_ those visuals. Doubly so if they do it in IMAX format, but IMAX might still be too firmly married to documentaries in the public consciousness for that to work. Ding ding ding! Exactly right. As long as the plot kept the action moving along at a reasonable pace, even wretched characterization wouldn’t be much of a drawback. the incredible visual power of the Ringworld, if properly realized, would keep eyes glued to the screen. This is why AOTC in the Star Wars series was such a huge hit with everyone but the fanboys. The brilliant realization of Trantor (whatever they called the Imperial capital, it was OBVIOUSLY Asimov’s Trantor that inspired it) and other locales made the movie watchable just for the sake of its beauty. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/9 "2004-07-01T04:38:43Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > they would CGI the puppeteers (or worse, muppetize them) Is there another option that I am missing? Puppet (good choice given the name of the species) or CGI or what, genetically engineer them? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/10 "2004-07-01T05:10:11Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > My feeling is that it would be really hard to do it justice; I doubt they’d even bother to try. Filmmakers aren’t out to “do justice” to the book; they’re out to make money. Just look at what they’ve done to Asimov’s _I, Robot_ story in the recent film. Or look at all the Sherlock Holmes films or Shakespeare films: they hire some hack scriptwriter to “improve” the original book. Do they really think this person can produce something better than the original works, which have already been read & enjoyed for decades? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/11 "2004-07-01T08:15:15Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Is there another option that I am missing? Puppet (good choice given the name of the species) or CGI or what, genetically engineer them? No, I suppose there isn’t much in the way of other options; what I meant is that I _fear_ they would do the CGI in a _bad_ way (Jar Jar), or the animatronics in a way that just made it look like [Emu](http://www.kobotica.com/online/_media/_Gal10_Med/pcd/1946/pcd1946-040-rod_hull-emu.JPG) with two heads. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/12 "2004-07-01T08:17:26Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Filmmakers aren’t out to “do justice” to the book; they’re out to make money. That may generally be the case, but I think there are still a few idealists out there. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/13 "2004-07-01T10:00:19Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Well that answers the question. It can be made into a movie, but not a \* good \* movie. It won’t be a good movie because it isn’t really a good book. Shallow characterizations, leaden dialogue, nonexistant plot, no suspense, no sense of wonder and a “plot twist” visable half a book away. The science is OK, I guess, but even that is undermined by some outright nonsense - the invulnerable ship, the super-bikes (which make the whole thing seem like a weekend outing instead of a fight for survival), the walk-thru metal, and of course, the foray into half-assed fantasy with the Luck of Teela What’s-her-name. There might be a good movie to be made about a Ringworld or a Dyson Sphere, but it isn’t this one (OTOH, the squals may be radically better - haven’t read them). ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/14 "2004-07-01T13:13:56Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Is there another option that I am missing? Puppet (good choice given the name of the species) or CGI or what, genetically engineer them? Claymation. Or stop-action. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/15 "2004-07-01T13:23:15Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Is there another option that I am missing? Puppet (good choice given the name of the species) or CGI or what, genetically engineer them? True fanboys will never be happy until we go back to the days of guys in latex suits clumping around and running into one another because they can’t see out of them. Now THAT’S movie magic! ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/16 "2004-07-01T15:37:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It won’t be a good movie because it isn’t really a good book. Shallow characterizations, leaden dialogue, nonexistant plot, no suspense, no sense of wonder and a “plot twist” visable half a book away. There might be a good movie to be made about a Ringworld or a Dyson Sphere, but it isn’t this one (OTOH, the squals may be radically better - haven’t read them). I agree… and disagree. Yeah, the characterizations aren’t the best. We have Louis Wu, two hundred years old, and bored, so he wants an adventure. We have Speaker-To-Animals, who’s a Kzin. We spend the rest of the book learning about Kzin. (Cross Klingons with large cats, and you’ve pretty much got it). We have Teela Brown, the shallowest character of all, the person who literally is her own luck (and yeah, the idea of genetically breeding a human for luck strikes me as kind of weird, too. Then again, lots of SF concepts strike me weird. If we can have telepathy, we can have probability control) …and we have Nessus the Puppeteer. We spend the rest of the book learning about Puppeteers (incredibly technologically advanced cowards). I must disagree about the “sense of wonder,” though. The Ringworld itself is very much the star of the show – it’s a MANUFACTURED OBJECT THE SIZE OF EARTH’S ORBIT! Jesus, how can anyone NOT be awed by such a thing? …and if that ain’t enough, we’ve got a mountain the size of a planet, Mount Fist-Of-God, caused when an asteroid hit the underside at just the right angle to punch through! There are Eye Storms – storms caused by meteor punctures going the other way – permanent localized hurricanes bigger than Earth! And, due to optical illusion, the hurricane looks like a giant friggin’ eye! …lack of wonder, bubs? Sure, we could do with better characters. We get them, to some extent, in the sequel, _The Ringworld Engineers_, and the later volumes. But the book really isn’t about the characters; it’s about the concepts. …and I don’t trust Hollywood to be able to understand such a thing, much less do anything meaningful, interesting, or competent with it. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/17 "2004-07-01T15:53:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It won’t be a good movie because it isn’t really a good book. Shallow characterizations, leaden dialogue, nonexistant plot, no suspense, no sense of wonder and a “plot twist” visable half a book away. The science is OK, I guess, but even that is undermined by some outright nonsense - the invulnerable ship, the super-bikes (which make the whole thing seem like a weekend outing instead of a fight for survival), the walk-thru metal, and of course, the foray into half-assed fantasy with the Luck of Teela What’s-her-name. There might be a good movie to be made about a Ringworld or a Dyson Sphere, but it isn’t this one (OTOH, the squals may be radically better - haven’t read them). I saw Niven giving a talk at a convention where he said that he is basically a “tourist”, he likes visiting places, and that his characters tend to be tourists also. He comes up with ideas for an interesting place or setting then has his characters go there to explore it. He was talking about _The Integral Trees_ at the time but the same thing obviously applies to _Ringworld_. The main “character” in _Ringworld_ is the Ringworld itself. Louis, Speaker, Nessus and Teela are just there as the tourists exploring this interesting place. So, the book isn’t so much character or plot driven as it is setting driven. A lot of Niven’s work falls into that category. (He also writes a lot of stories where the main “character” is an idea or concept; _Neutron Star_ is an example here.) So, if you like exploring places or ideas like this then you will enjoy a lot of what Niven writes. If you are looking for serious characterization or plot development, then _Ringworld_ probably isn’t going to be for you. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the book. But I do so even while agreeing with most of what you are saying. (The only place I really disagree with you is your comment about “sense of wonder”. I thought the Ringworld itself was well realized and fit my “sense of wonder” definition.) As an aside, Niven created the “invulnerable ship” just so he could pose the problem explored in _Neutron Star_. He has admitted since then it probably wasn’t a good idea. (See _Down in Flames_.) (Oh, I also wanted to say that I figured out the big “surprise” in _The Ringworld Engineers_ about two-thirds of the way through _Ringworld_. I thought it was obvious. I also had a couple of major problems with _Engineers_ but that has nothing to do with this thread…) ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/18 "2004-07-01T15:54:57Z")
The Ringworld CONCEPT is pretty damned cool. The Ringworld BOOKs are, at best, meh. And I’m a big Niven fan. When they talk about the Ringworld and its structure, origins, dynamics, scale, etc., the book works pretty well. But, most of the book is a trek through a bunch of unrelated societies. These societies have nothing really to do with the Ringworld, except to show just how damn BIG the thing is. They could just as easily be plunked down unchanged on a conventional planet somewhere in a different novel. They’re kinda pointless, and then they climb back on their cycles and fly on to the next one. Meh. A movie might actually improve on things by eliminating most of the trek. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/19 "2004-07-01T15:55:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This isn’t something I’ll say often, but I think that they could make a good movie, as long as they realized that plot isn’t too important. The _book_ is already mostly about the sweeping visuals; a movie would be very well-suited to actually _showing_ those visuals. Doubly so if they do it in IMAX format, but IMAX might still be too firmly married to documentaries in the public consciousness for that to work. You mean sort of like one version of To The Center of the Earth they did a lot of pullback shots showing them crossing vast caverns, that underground ocean and such? I think it could work, a nice long shot of the floating city, the room in the city with the room that you can see everywhere in the ring…could be neat. But I agree about the ‘farscaping’ and muppetizing that could go on… But a long juicy series of 2 years would work [there are several ringworld novels and shortstories in that universe that could weave in and out] ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/20 "2004-07-01T15:58:10Z")
_Ringworld_ is a perfect candidate to adapt as anime. There are a ton of great, classic science fiction texts laying around that would be phenominally expensive to make as a live action movie and whose plot and high concept is such that it wouldn’t ever get made because it would be a guaranteed money loser. How much anime have you seen that looks good–hell looks GREAT–but lacks a coherent plot? It’s totally possible to make great-looking animated movies (or hell, TV serials) in the anime style out of _Ringworld_, _Gateway_, _Rendevous with Rama_, _The Fountains of Paradise_, _Childhood’s End_, _Starship Troopers_ (with real Mobile Infantry! Gundam anyone?) on the cheap. And because they would cost a fraction of what a full-on movie would cost, it would be possible to stay true to the books and take all kinds of narrative risks that one couldn’t dream of doing in a $150 million movie. It’s a dream of mine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888.md?page=2)