# Could Larry Niven's Ringworld series be made into a movie(s)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888 "2004-06-30T14:51:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/21 "2004-07-01T16:03:09Z")
Jeez, how jaded are you that you got no “sense of wonder” out of _Ringworld_? Aside from the whole Ringworld itself and all the other stuff **Master Wang-Ka** mentioned, you’ve got floating cites, superconducting cloth, shadow squares, stepping disks, the Kemplerer rosette… That last impressed me even more than the Ringworld. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/22 "2004-07-01T16:04:35Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > It’s totally possible to make great-looking animated movies (or hell, TV serials) in the anime style out of … _Starship Troopers_ (with real Mobile Infantry! Gundam anyone?) on the cheap. There _was_ an anime version of _Starship Troopers_; I have the first two or three episodes of it somewhere. (I’m not talking about the “Roughnecks” series either.) The suits looked good, not sure about the rest of the plot. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/23 "2004-07-01T16:07:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It won’t be a good movie because it isn’t really a good book. Shallow characterizations, leaden dialogue, nonexistant plot, no suspense, no sense of wonder and a “plot twist” visable half a book away. The science is OK, I guess, but even that is undermined by some outright nonsense - the invulnerable ship, the super-bikes (which make the whole thing seem like a weekend outing instead of a fight for survival), the walk-thru metal, and of course, the foray into half-assed fantasy with the Luck of Teela What’s-her-name. ``` Them's fighting words where I come from. I'd regard Ringworld as one of the seminal "hard" science fiction books and quite well-written. I'm fairly sure that the invulnerable ship was a necessary prerequisite for the puzzle in the short story "There is a Tide". But it's not ludicrous, given the technology of the Puppeteers. And you needed * something * like the fly cycles if you're going to explore something the size of Earth's orbit, even slightly. I'd rather believe in a General Products hull than believe in the survival of the Enterprise's disk (and passengers) in ST-Generations, or the crashing starship in Pitch Black. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/24 "2004-07-01T16:49:13Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > _Ringworld_ is a perfect candidate to adapt as anime. There are a ton of great, classic science fiction texts laying around that would be phenominally expensive to make as a live action movie and whose plot and high concept is such that it wouldn’t ever get made because it would be a guaranteed money loser… It’s a dream of mine. I like this. I’ve been saying for a long time that the only way to to Dune properly is as a series of anime films. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/25 "2004-07-01T17:26:58Z")
> [@Terminus Est](#): > > Jeez, how jaded are you that you got no “sense of wonder” out of _Ringworld_? Aside from the whole Ringworld itself and all the other stuff **Master Wang-Ka** mentioned, you’ve got floating cites, superconducting cloth, shadow squares, stepping disks, the Kemplerer rosette… That last impressed me even more than the Ringworld. You know which world \*did]/i] instill me with a sense of wonder? The future earth from Gene Wolfe’s _Book of the New Sun_, which you may be familiar with. In fact, it might be the most awe-inspiring SF setting ever… and all we see is half a continent. That’s because it had history, culture, and _personality_. Niven’s ringworld, on the other hand, was just an engineering concept. I only felt its scope becae the author kept on reminding me of it, not because he actually bothered to fill it with anything interesting. Maybe it’s because I’d encountered ringworlds (and spheres) before from other, possibly later books, but Niven just couldn’t use the novelty of the Idea as much of a drawing point - there had to be something more. I’ve read enough SF to get a grasp of how big space is and how much variety it can hoold, so the mere description of size, without complexity, doen’t impress me all that much. Where were the multi-planet sized empires? Where were the bizzare cultures of semi-devolved humans? Where was the deep, dark secret of the Builders’ (or whatever) self-destruction? I think the nadir of the book was when our intrepid adveturers (and they weren’t much more than a proto-D&D party, being led through a particularly linear module by a bored DM) made first contact with some locals. Let me paraphrase: Shaman: “Observe the return of our masters!” Louis Wu: “Actually, no. We’re just intersteller travellers.” Shaman: “Oh. I guess that’s cool.” Louis Wu: “So… what’s with the bald shtick? Any idea?” Shaman: “Beats the hell out of me. See you around!” How can any “sense of wonder” survive such an exchange? Wonder, awe, terror and joy are derived form the _style_ of writing, not from the subject. Is it no wonder that Niven wrote his best books - _Mote_, or _Footfall_ - with other people? I’ve often thought that _Ringworld_ should have been written by Niven contemporary Roger Zelazny. Louis Wu, especially, is a classic Zelazny character, and I’m pretty sure he could have made even Teela Brown interesting. He might have given the actual science sort shrift, but that’s the price you pay for being a writer first. Now, maybe it improves with the later books - I haven’t read them, and I probably won’t. I’m already prety sure that Niven, by himself, cannot produce the same level of emotional involvement as Gene Wolfe, Frank Herbert, Dan Simmons\* , Zelazny, Aldiss, Silverberg, Adams, Martin… either in the characters, or in the worlds. \*In Simmons’s _Rise of Endymion_, he introduces organic Dyson Spheres, made of living trees, with whales and dolphins swimming through space around their roots. Now _that’s_ impressive! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/26 "2004-07-01T18:46:58Z")
I liked **Ringworld** the novel, but part of that might be because I read it after reading **Rendezvous With Rama,** which had the same “explore an alien artifact” idea but was dull as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/27 "2004-07-01T22:05:41Z")
Wait, wait, wait. > [@Alessan](#): > > Is it no wonder that Niven wrote his best books - _Mote_, or _ **Footfall** _ - with other people? (emphasis mine) Footfall? FOOTFALL? The one with the elephant aliens who use WINGNUTS as fasteners? That’s one of Niven’s best books? I am speechless. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/28 "2004-07-01T22:58:56Z")
Well, you try operating a screwdriver without opposable thumbs. I liked _Footfall_ a lot. It was no work of art, but it was well written, the characters were good and it had this gonzo everything-but-the-kitchen-sink attiutude that was really endearing. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/29 "2004-07-01T23:29:19Z")
Hmmm… I wasn’t terribly overcome by _Footfall_ - the aliens were just too damn _stupid_ and the whole thing was just Niven’s Big Wet Dream anyway (SF writer reluctantly accepts important role in government advisory committee, saves entire planet - yay! authors aren’t useless after all) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/30 "2004-07-01T23:39:48Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Hmmm… I wasn’t terribly overcome by _Footfall_ - the aliens were just too damn _stupid_ and the whole thing was just Niven’s Big Wet Dream anyway (SF writer reluctantly accepts important role in government advisory committee, saves entire planet - yay! authors aren’t useless after all) The Geek Wish Fulfillment was half the fun - because he kept his sense of humor about it, and because the brainstroming sessions really were fun and interesting. As for the primitive aliens, I thing that was the whole point of the book. I mean, we’ve all read stories about being invaded by superior races, and here we have an invasion of Earth by an _inferior_ race, who only got here through dumb luck. It was a neat, original reversal. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/31 "2004-07-01T23:56:42Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Hmmm… I wasn’t terribly overcome by _Footfall_ - the aliens were just too damn _stupid_ and the whole thing was just Niven’s Big Wet Dream anyway (SF writer reluctantly accepts important role in government advisory committee, saves entire planet - yay! authors aren’t useless after all) Nah, you want wet dreams, you’re talking **Fallen Angels.** _Sci-Fi geeks save humanity and Earth from no-fun religious nutjobs._ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/32 "2004-07-02T19:09:33Z")
> [@](#): > > There might be a good movie to be made about a Ringworld or a Dyson Sphere, but it isn’t this one Hmmm…think we could transplant one of Edgar Rice Burroughs’ \*Earth’s Core \* novels to a Dyson Sphere? Visually, a sphereworld would look a lot like Pellucidar. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/33 "2004-07-02T19:22:54Z")
I stopped by the used bookstore last night and bought a copy of **Ringworld**. Actually, it isn’t as ‘meh’ as I had remembered. I was probably thinking of **The Ringworld Engineers**. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/34 "2004-07-02T19:36:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Mangetout: > Hmmm… I wasn’t terribly overcome by Footfall - the aliens were just too damn stupid and the whole thing was just Niven’s Big Wet Dream anyway (SF writer reluctantly accepts important role in government advisory committee, saves entire planet - yay! authors aren’t useless after all) > > rjung: > Nah, you want wet dreams, you’re talking Fallen Angels. > Sci-Fi geeks save humanity and Earth from no-fun religious nutjobs. You mean he’s written books that are _more_ of a self-indulgent wet dream than a huge place where everyone is required to have sex with exotic strangers in order to be polite? Guess I’m glad I never read those two. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/35 "2004-07-02T19:40:57Z")
I Googled about, and I see that the SciFi movie is actually going to be a four-part miniseries. [semi-hijack] But what’s this? There’s a new Ringworld book out? _Ringworld’s Children_, just out, apparently. That one got by my radar. Well, even though the last one bit, I’m a sucker for anything with Louis Wu in it, so I guess I’m going to read it. [/semi-hijack] ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/36 "2004-07-02T19:50:10Z")
I’m more of a Beowulf Schaefer kinda guy… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/37 "2004-07-02T21:53:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Let me paraphrase: . . . How can any “sense of wonder” survive such an exchange? Wonder, awe, terror and joy are derived form the style of writing, not from the subject. So you’re saying that wonder derives from the style, and you use a paraphrase _in a different style_ to prove that the book doesn’t have wonder? Am I being whooshed here? And the multi-planet-sized empires and the devolved (actually more like un-evolved) ((and strictly speaking, just differently-evolved)) humans are in the sequels. Which stands to reason: You’ve got to introduce the Ringworld itself before you can introduce the various cultures and wide variety within it, and that just about filled the first book. Then, once the stage is set, you can enter the players, which he did in the second and third. Unfortunately, despite the established setting, the sequels were far inferior to the original book, due, I think, largely to editors cowed by Niven’s reputation and afraid to offer constructive criticism. In _The Ringworld Throne_, especially, I got the sense that there was a very good story hiding somewhere in there, just trying to get out… But it never got the chance. Actually, for that matter, the original _Ringworld_ rather suffered from Niven’s other writings, particularly _Protector_. It was published afterwards, but remember that it was known history to Wu and his crew. Given that, they should have immediately figured out the secret of the Engineers, as soon as they made first contact with the natives. Yeah, I’ll be reading _Children_ out of loyalty to the author and to what the series could have been, but I don’t plan on buying it. I’ll just wait until the local library gets a copy. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888/38 "2004-07-02T22:19:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So you’re saying that wonder derives from the style, and you use a paraphrase _in a different style_ to prove that the book doesn’t have wonder? Am I being whooshed here? > > . Whooshed? No. I was paraphrasing it in a rather (ineptly) exaggerated way because that was how the passege _seemed_ to me. In certain ways, it was the anti-_Solaris_ - not only is the Universe easy to communicate with, it also has nothing interesting to say. It was an extremely amateurish chunk of dialogue that first made a potentially alien culture into something mundane and familiar, eliminating any sense of strangeness which is a prerequisite for wonder; and second, it ground the story to a halt. It was as if Niven was telling the reader: “Human drama? You want human drama? Well, I’m a science fiction author - I don’t do human drama!” Of course, maybe it was just me, and nobody else had a problem with that chapter. But to me, it epitomized everything that was wrong with _Ringworld_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-larry-nivens-ringworld-series-be-made-into-a-movie-s/252888.md?page=1)