# Could Mueller withhold charges until Trump is out of office to avoid pardons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 20, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746 "2018-04-20T01:22:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/1 "2018-04-20T01:22:35Z")
Would that be considered unethical or illegal on his part? Can Trump blanket pardon, say, Cohen for “any and all crimes that happened during my administration?” or does he have to wait til charges are actually brought? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/2 "2018-04-20T01:25:17Z")
Wasn’t Ford’s pardon issued despite there being no charges leveled against Nixon? Seems like the same logic would apply if so. Federal Prosecutors issue immunity grants all of the time to people for anything they may have done before they walked into their office. (Not exactly, but close enough, and talk to your Federal criminal defense attorney before relying on the above.) Why couldn’t the President pardon whomever for whatever the President wanted? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/3 "2018-04-20T02:53:33Z")
The statute of limitations would eventually run. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/4 "2018-04-20T03:11:47Z")
Presidential pardons don’t cover state prosecutions. There was some mention of a slim chance that he would be able to get away with a ‘double jeopardy’ argument on that, which NY lawmakers are currently considering passing legislation to prevent. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/5 "2018-04-20T04:08:03Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Would that be considered unethical or illegal on his part? Can Trump blanket pardon, say, Cohen for “any and all crimes that happened during my administration?” or does he have to wait til charges are actually brought? Thanks. That’s close to exactly what Nixon’s pardon said: > [@](#): > > NOW, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974. [https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation\_4311](https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation_4311) ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/6 "2018-04-20T06:17:31Z")
It would obviously be unethical for Trump to pardon Cohen, etc, in an attempt to stymie an investigation into Trump himself. It wouldn’t be illegal, in the sense that he has the constitutional power to do so. It would be enormously politically damaging, however, since it would look a lot like an admission of guilt. Plus, enough congressmen might be so horrified by this behaviour that the House would consider it a “high crime and misdemeanour”, warranting impeachment. If the don’t consider that immediately, they might well come to that view just after the mid-term elections. Nixon, as we know, tried all kinds of things to stymie the investigation into Watergate, but he didn’t try pardoning everybody implicated in the enquiry with a view to spiking it that way. Presumably, he didn’t think he could get away with that. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/7 "2018-04-20T12:56:45Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Nixon, as we know, tried all kinds of things to stymie the investigation into Watergate, but he didn’t try pardoning everybody implicated in the enquiry with a view to spiking it that way. Presumably, he didn’t think he could get away with that. I think if Nixon had lived in the era of Fox and Facebook, he would have done it and gotten away with it. Back then, everybody got their news from legitimate sources. Now, one can live in the reality of one’s choosing and the Republicans would have united behind Nixon and foiled any attempt to try him in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/8 "2018-04-20T14:30:31Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Would that be considered unethical or illegal on his part? Can Trump blanket pardon, say, Cohen for “any and all crimes that happened during my administration?” or does he have to wait til charges are actually brought? Thanks. Mueller’s remit is not open-ended. The DOJ is not going to wait two and a half more years for him to continue his investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/9 "2018-04-20T17:47:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Presidential pardons don’t cover state prosecutions. There was some mention of a slim chance that he would be able to get away with a ‘double jeopardy’ argument on that, which NY lawmakers are currently considering passing legislation to prevent. Double jeopardy how? The federal crime and state crime are different crimes even if it is for the same act so no double jeopardy. Remember the police in the Rodney King case were found not guilty prompting the LA riots. The feds then prosecuted the police under a federal statute for the same act. No double jeopardy because it was a different crime being alleged. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/10 "2018-04-20T18:03:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Double jeopardy how? The federal crime and state crime are different crimes even if it is for the same act so no double jeopardy. > > Remember the police in the Rodney King case were found not guilty prompting the LA riots. The feds then prosecuted the police under a federal statute for the same act. No double jeopardy because it was a different crime being alleged. [New York’s Double-Jeopardy Loophole](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/schneiderman-double-jeopardy/558389/) > [@from the article](#): > > State and federal court systems are separate, but many states, including New York, have recognized that a defendant who has been tried once in federal court should not be hauled into state court for the same act. (The U.S. Department of Justice also has a policy against it.) Double jeopardy isn’t so easily sidestepped by saying it’s a different crime, it’s being charged for the same actions. Apparently, about 30 states have this supposed “loophole” wrt state vs federal charges. ---
**Author:** ![pdhenry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pdhenry/32/5561_2.png) [@pdhenry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pdhenry)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-mueller-withhold-charges-until-trump-is-out-of-office-to-avoid-pardons/812746/11 "2018-04-20T18:15:41Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > It would obviously be unethical for Trump to pardon Cohen, etc, in an attempt to stymie an investigation into Trump himself. > > It wouldn’t be illegal, in the sense that he has the constitutional power to do so. It would be enormously politically damaging, however, since it would look a lot like an admission of guilt. Plus, enough congressmen might be so horrified by this behaviour that the House would consider it a “high crime and misdemeanour”, warranting impeachment. If the don’t consider that immediately, they might well come to that view just after the mid-term elections. > > Nixon, as we know, tried all kinds of things to stymie the investigation into Watergate, but he didn’t try pardoning everybody implicated in the enquiry with a view to spiking it that way. Presumably, he didn’t think he could get away with that. As I understand the possible approach being discussed on the evening discussions, the plan would not be to issue any sort of pardon in advance, but to issue pardons for any contempt, etc. citations where a witness refuses to answer questions in a legal proceeding. Some argue that Trump’s pardon of Scooter Libby for just that offense is meant to telegraph his intention to do so for any such offenses in Russiagate hearings.