# Could Obama nullify the election results? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 16, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861 "2016-12-16T16:14:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/1 "2016-12-16T16:14:59Z")
Has he the power to do that and order a new election? I realize there is no evidence at all of Russian hacking voting machines, etc and nobody as far as I can see is suggesting that Hillary would have won if it weren’t for those meddling Russkies but I’m interested if the President has the power to step in if real election fraud is discovered. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/2 "2016-12-16T16:21:15Z")
On what authority? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/3 "2016-12-16T17:24:31Z")
No, it’s not a power the president has. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/4 "2016-12-16T17:25:42Z")
Of course the President doesn’t have the power to arbitrarily reject elections. Or reject them for good reasons, either. Hey OP, if I recall, you’ve asked several fundamental questions about our government recently. Have you ever taken the time to read the Constitution? I’m not saying that as an insult, but you seem to have a new interest in these sorts of things, and it is the most important document in our country. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/5 "2016-12-16T17:50:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Of course the President doesn’t have the power to arbitrarily reject elections. Or reject them for good reasons, either. > > Hey OP, if I recall, you’ve asked several fundamental questions about our government recently. Have you ever taken the time to read the Constitution? I’m not saying that as an insult, but you seem to have a new interest in these sorts of things, and it is the most important document in our country. Yes, that’s a sensible suggestion which I’ll certainly take up. I’ve read the Amendments before and perused the Constitution but not fully and not with the attention it deserves. I guess somewhere in there it will tell me just how an election could be nullified and by which branch. At a guess I’d say it’s Congress which would have to navigate such dangerous waters. There surely must _be_ a process for nullifying an election. Does anyone know if it’s happened at a lower level, eg state or county or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/6 "2016-12-16T17:57:34Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I guess somewhere in there it will tell me just how an election could be nullified and by which branch. Nope. It won’t tell you that. Which should tell you that it cannot be “nullified” by any branch. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/7 "2016-12-16T17:58:49Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Yes, that’s a sensible suggestion which I’ll certainly take up. I’ve read the Amendments before and perused the Constitution but not fully and not with the attention it deserves. I guess somewhere in there it will tell me just how an election could be nullified and by which branch. At a guess I’d say it’s Congress which would have to navigate such dangerous waters. There surely must _be_ a process for nullifying an election. Does anyone know if it’s happened at a lower level, eg state or county or whatever? I don’t think that anybody in the US has the power to simply “nullify” an election. Presidential Elections have been tied in the Electoral College, gone to Congress (per the Constitution) & then settled by some kind of deal. Often a shady one. There’s been such skullduggery on the local level, too. Winners can be removed from office, for various reasons. Such situations usually led to heavy opposition to the “winner.” Of course, that’s also true when an election was settled by the usual procedure… ---
**Author:** ![quimper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7c8e57/32.png) [@quimper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quimper)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/8 "2016-12-16T18:12:00Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Yes, that’s a sensible suggestion which I’ll certainly take up. I’ve read the Amendments before and perused the Constitution but not fully and not with the attention it deserves. I guess somewhere in there it will tell me just how an election could be nullified and by which branch. At a guess I’d say it’s Congress which would have to navigate such dangerous waters. There surely must _be_ a process for nullifying an election. Does anyone know if it’s happened at a lower level, eg state or county or whatever? Congress would have no say in the matter. The US presidential election is often treated as a single entity when in reality it is 51 separate elections that happen at the same time – 50 states and DC (Puerto Rico and the other US territories are barred from participating). I suppose some of the individual states \*might \*have a procedure to nullify federal election results, but I’m not aware of any. I emphasize ‘might’ since the ultimate result of each state’s presidental election is only to advise the slate of electors in said state whom the people want as president. It’s up to the Electors to cast his/her vote ([it’s worth noting that 99% of the time, the Electors have voted as pledged.](https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/electors.html#selection)) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/9 "2016-12-16T18:19:27Z")
> [@quimper](#): > > I emphasize ‘might’ since the ultimate result of each state’s presidental election is only to advise the slate of electors in said state whom the people want as president. It’s up to the Electors to cast his/her vote ([it’s worth noting that 99% of the time, the Electors have voted as pledged.](https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/electors.html#selection)) It’s more than just advising electors. The election results actually pick a different set of electors depending on who wins. If Trump gets more votes in a state, then Trump’s slate of electors are the ones that vote. If Hillary gets more votes in a state, then it’s her slate of electors (for that state) that get to cast votes on Dec. 19th. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/10 "2016-12-16T18:24:13Z")
It’s possible that in the case of Gross irregularities the Supreme court could declare that the election was handled in such a way as to be unconstitutional, say for example if a majority of the states discarded all minority votes and so violated the 15th amendment. But doing so would likely cause a[Consitutional Crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_crisis#United_States) which would be bad ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/11 "2016-12-16T18:26:01Z")
As a general rule, the constitution gives the states very broad power to run the presidential election. Indeed, there doesn’t have to be an election per se at all; the state legislature could choose that state’s presidential electors, and some states did that in the very early years of the US, if I’m not mistaken. By contrast, the president has little to no authority over the election. I don’t think Congress does either, under ordinary circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/12 "2016-12-16T18:47:26Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Yes, that’s a sensible suggestion which I’ll certainly take up. I’ve read the Amendments before and perused the Constitution but not fully and not with the attention it deserves. If I may suggest a book to read if you would like to understand the Constitution (and by extension, how the government operates in the US), it would be _[Your Rugged Constitution](https://www.amazon.com/Your-Rugged-Constitution-Bruce-Findlay/dp/0804793565/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1481914003&sr=1-1&keywords=your+rugged+constitution)_. My grandmother bought me a copy when I was 10, and that was a long time ago. But it was non-technical enough for a precocious 10-year-old to understand, and it has been a handy reference over the last 55 years since then. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/13 "2016-12-16T18:49:52Z")
No, Obama can’t nullify, there is no authority whatsoever. That being said, I do wonder, if an election’s recounts or legal battles went on for a long, long time - say, months or even years of bitterly contested results in which there is no clear victor - would the incumbent POTUS just stay on as president indefinitely until the issue is resolved? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/14 "2016-12-16T18:58:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That being said, I do wonder, if an election’s recounts or legal battles went on for a long, long time - say, months or even years of bitterly contested results in which there is no clear victor - would the incumbent POTUS just stay on as president indefinitely until the issue is resolved? Can’t. “He shall hold his office during the term of four years”. Not “four years or more, if circumstances warrant”. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/15 "2016-12-16T19:38:55Z")
As mentioned at other times, what you have in the USA is 51 separately run elections for the posts of Electors. So it would be up to each state’s entity that regulates elections to act upon evidence of shenanigans, not to the federal legislature or executive. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/16 "2016-12-16T20:30:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That being said, I do wonder, if an election’s recounts or legal battles went on for a long, long time - say, months or even years of bitterly contested results in which there is no clear victor - would the incumbent POTUS just stay on as president indefinitely until the issue is resolved? This is covered by the 20th Amendment. Section 1 states that the terms of the President and Vice-President end on January 20th. Section 3 states that if a President has not yet been chosen or qualified on that date, then the Vice-President elect acts as President until a President is chosen. If there is neither a President chosen nor a Vice-President, congress can determine by statute who shall act as President until a President is chosen or qualified. > **[Twentieth Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)** > > The Twentieth Amendment (Amendment XX) to the United States Constitution moved the beginning and ending of the terms of the president and vice president from March 4 to January 20, and of members of Congress from March 4 to January 3. It also has provisions that determine what is to be done when there is no president-elect. The Twentieth Amendment was adopted on January 23, 1933. > The amendment reduced the presidential transition and the "lame duck" period, by which members of Congress and the... ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/17 "2016-12-16T21:03:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > By contrast, the president has little to no authority over the election. I don’t think Congress does either, under ordinary circumstances. Congress _does_ have the power to remove the President from office, however, and replace him with the VP, which is most likely how this sort of “Russians installed a puppet in the White House” hypothetical would be solved. Rinse and repeat if the VP and others in the chain of succession are also believed to be Russian puppets. That is, if the Electoral College or state election commissions didn’t get involved in fixing things first. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/18 "2016-12-17T00:55:41Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I guess somewhere in there it will tell me just how an election could be nullified and by which branch. As has been said, there is no provision in the Constitution to nullify an election, or hold a new one, by any branch of the US government. There are various theoretical ways in which the state legislatures, the Electoral College, or Congress could select someone other than the person who won the election (even someone who wasn’t even on the ballot) to serve as president, and we have had a number of threads debating these mostly fanciful scenarios. One thing that would be certain would be that this would provoke one of the greatest constitutional crises the US has ever seen. In the [disputed election of 1876](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1876), the Democratic candidate, Tilden, evidently won the election but the Republican candidate, Hayes, ended up President by one electoral vote through various kinds of chicanery and manipulation. The Democrats were persuaded to accept the result by the government agreeing to withdraw Federal troops from the South. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/19 "2016-12-17T02:03:20Z")
Obama could negate the election…but the military would have to go along with that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861/20 "2016-12-17T04:49:50Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Yes, that’s a sensible suggestion which I’ll certainly take up. I’ve read the Amendments before and perused the Constitution but not fully and not with the attention it deserves. I guess somewhere in there it will tell me just how an election could be nullified and by which branch. At a guess I’d say it’s Congress which would have to navigate such dangerous waters. There surely must _be_ a process for nullifying an election. Does anyone know if it’s happened at a lower level, eg state or county or whatever? Courts have nullified elections for massive fraud, but I don’t think they’d be comfortable nullifying an election due to “improper persuasion”, as in Russia spread fake news. That’s hard to prove in terms of proving that the people voted based mainly on fake news, and even if you could prove it all you’ve done is prove that we shouldn’t have elections at all. Once a court has established that an election can be won by a foreign power simply disseminating information, then a court has basically called elections in general unconstitutional, since all elections involve the spreading of false information, from both foreign and domestic sources. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-obama-nullify-the-election-results/774861.md?page=2)