# could police officers wear a "I permit that you audio and video tape me" personal badge? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 13, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245 "2011-04-13T17:32:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245/21 "2011-04-14T12:50:50Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > So? Let them explain the story behind it if necessary. Meanwhile, the city burns and people are killed in rioting. Bad plan. In regards to the OP, I can’t think of a better way to reinforce the “us vs. them” mentality that is the hallmark or law enforcement. A mentality I find exceedingly dangerous (both to the cops, and the public) as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245/22 "2011-04-14T13:43:52Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Even if you do assume that they are decent people with nothing to hide (most of the ones I know personally are, at least) there is the fact that when something is taken out of context, the public in general can easily misinterpret or overreact to it. I would bet that most of those decent police officers would rather not have their every move videotaped and reviewed. And I would rather not have my every dollar of my income reported and reviewed by the IRS. Too bad, so sad. If there is a legitimate reason for using what appears to be excessive force, let the police make their case. They answer to us. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245/23 "2011-04-14T13:53:25Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Meanwhile, the city burns and people are killed in rioting. > > Bad plan. This argument is a craven surrender to mob rule. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245/24 "2011-04-15T15:39:07Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Meanwhile, the city burns and people are killed in rioting. > > Bad plan. > > In regards to the OP, I can’t think of a better way to reinforce the “us vs. them” mentality that is the hallmark or law enforcement. A mentality I find exceedingly dangerous (both to the cops, and the public) as it is. Really? Allowing the cops to do whatever they want without consequence is the best way you can imagine of removing the ‘us vs. them’ mentality in the minds of the public? Whereas emphasizing that police are just like the public in that they must also follow rules and be accountable will only emphasize the distinction between police and the public? I’m really trying to wrap my mind around how that works. Can you explain? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245/25 "2011-04-15T17:43:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Police aren’t individual actors. They are governmental employees subject to strict regulation. Any policy decisions are made by supervisors, up through the level of city councils and mayors (or the equivalents elsewhere). > > The establishment would discipline the individual accordingly. > > If you want to argue whether this is a good thing or not, ask a mod to move it to another forum. I agree with this. The police are all supposed to be following one set of policies not making individual decisions on how to perform their job. The principle is that the law is supposed to be enforced uniformly not on a individual basis. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245/26 "2011-04-16T18:06:16Z")
Excellent excluded middle fallacy there, guys. There is a middle ground between “Cops are free to act as they wish, with no oversight and total freedom” and “cops are monitored, recorded, and reviewed for every action they take at all times”. We live in that middle ground now, and for the most part it works out well. I would like to see more accountability myself, and I would like to see cops upheld to the same standards as everyone else, even by their fellow cops. I have also been told by friends who are LEO that that last is almost impossible. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245/27 "2011-04-16T19:25:37Z")
**Tristan** , have you ever tried asking your LEO friends why isn’t there more self-organization amongst the more decent people among them to resist the corporate solidarity principles established by not-so-decent people? I mean, why can’t decent people have a corporate solidarity of their own? Or is there too much of a shortage of such people there in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245/28 "2011-04-17T14:54:26Z")
I haven’t asked in exactly that way, but I have discussed it. From what I can tell, most LEO are just folks, no different from you and I. They do their job, they go home. There are extremes on both ends. Some cops are John Law, dedicated to fighting for Truth, Justice, etc. etc. and are shining examples of goodness and right. Some are bad cops, on the take, cover up crimes, etc. etc. But those extremes are rare. When I say equal enforcement, I mean things like speeding… cops don’t get speeding tickets. Cops don’t get tickets for texting while driving, or talking on cell phones while driving. That sort of thing. The statement was that no cop is going to screw another cop with such a ticket. You don’t know if the guy you just gave a ticket to is going to be the one to cover you in a bad situation. There is a fundamental flaw with this line of thinking, and it speaks to a problem in the community, but I haven’t figured out how to express it without sounding like an anti-cop jackass, which I am most certainly not. Cops do a hard job, one I certainly couldn’t do. And due to a change in our society, more often than not they are seen as the enemy by the average citizen. This is a shame, and causes more problems, imo, than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245/29 "2011-04-18T04:26:54Z")
**Tristan** , covering up for speeding does not sound like a big offense against public decency. In fact, if they were to cover up civilians’ speeding except for the truly egregious cases (instead of fulfilling fines quota), the world might have been a better place. My question refers more to the cases of violence against decent civilians and similar actions that reek of a “police supremacist” attitude. While I am not surprised that such a worldview has developed in this day and age, it would not have hurt to see active resistance to this from within the ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245/30 "2011-04-18T12:10:24Z")
Ah, but one leads to the other. There is a definite “us vs. them” mentality in the law enforcement community. If you aren’t a cop, you are a person who hasn’t been busted yet. Period. So when cops cover up for each other, it becomes a slippery slope. IT starts with “oh, texting, well, you’re one of us, so it’s ok.” and the potential for sliding down that slope is definitely there. Do a google for “The Blue Wall” and other phenomenon. One of my closest friends is on this board, and is a cop, and we have kind of butted heads over this discussion before. However, I feel I am close to an accidental hijack, so I shall back out of this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-police-officers-wear-a-i-permit-that-you-audio-and-video-tape-me-personal-badge/578245.md?page=1)