# Could Republicans run third party against Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 21, 2016, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740 "2016-03-21T09:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/21 "2016-03-23T21:43:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wouldn’t that cause problems with future ballot access, though? In every state, the Republicans and Democrats both always appear on the ballot, but that’s not due to laws specifying those two parties by name. Usually it’s things like “any party that received more than x% of the vote in the last election”, a bar which is always cleared by both major parties, and only rarely by any third party. If they let that lapse, then they’d have to get back on the ballots the hard way, with a whole bunch of petition signatures and the like. Now, the Republicans surely have the resources to make that possible, but it’d be a lot more effort than they’d want to go through. Almost certainly true. But it really seems to me like they’re in the mode of “when you’re up to your ass in alligators it’s easy to forget you came to drain the swamp.” IOW, they can only think about managing today’s problems today; long-range planning is not something they have the luxury of. Do the locally optimal thing even if it’s globally a bad idea. Lather, rinse repeat until dead or victorious. ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/22 "2016-03-23T21:53:51Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Them starting a third party effort June 8 would sure make for an interesting convention. I suspect Ryan is smart enough to want to stay in Congress and not be involved in this debacle, but it seems that Rick Perry has nothing better to do. The Libertarian Party is on the ballot but don’t choose their candidate until later - I can see the third party Republican going there for a lot of money paid to the Libertarian war chest. > You may not take their talk seriously, and it might never happen, but the fact that the talk is happening and involves the power structure, not a bunch of radical nutcases (well, maybe power structure nut cases) is important enough. I think the Libertarian convention is at the end of May. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/23 "2016-03-23T22:04:53Z")
[Salon](http://www.salon.com/2016/03/21/bill_kristols_anti_trump_fantasy_the_always_wrong_pundit_has_an_absurd_scheme_to_save_the_gop/) wrote a good piece about how difficult it would be, especially since mobilization would have to occur right now (this is response to Bill Kristol’s idle speculation on a third-party alternative) > [@](#): > > No right-leaning candidate can win the presidency without Texas and its 38 electoral votes. But getting on the ballot in Texas would, at this point, be just about impossible. State law requires that independent candidates submit a petition to the secretary of state containing signatures equal to at least one percent of the total number of people who voted in Texas in the 2012 presidential election – that comes out to just shy of 80,000 signatures. But that’s not all! The law also states that the signatures must come from voters who did not vote in either party’s presidential primary on March 1, which means some 4 million Texas voters would not be eligible. And, to cap it all off, the petition must be submitted by May 9 – that’s 50 days from today. > > So, if the Kristol independent candidate movement were to start operations in Texas today (which it can’t do because it has no candidate and no money), it would have to collect 1,600 signatures per day (all from voters who haven’t already voted for a presidential candidate this year) just to get on the ballot. > > And that’s just for Texas. To get on the ballot in Georgia and be eligible for the state’s 16 electoral votes, Kristol’s candidate would need signatures equal to 1 percent of the total number of registered voters in the state in 2012 – roughly 47,600 signatures – by the second Tuesday in July. For North Carolina and its 15 electoral votes, they’ll need just under 90,000 signatures before June 24. For Indiana and its eleven electoral votes, the Kristol candidate would need over 26,000 signatures by July 15. These are critical states for conservative presidential candidates, and there is no organization in any of them to get this hypothetical anti-Trump candidate on the ballot. And this is just a handful of states – getting on the ballot across the country will require huge amounts of spending and infrastructure building to sneak the candidate (whoever it is) in just ahead of the various filing deadlines. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/24 "2016-03-23T23:22:16Z")
If Trump is the nominee, the GOP will take 3 cycles, minimum to un-do the damage. How is it that Cruz (who simply everyone hates) is now the Savior of the entire party? I would hope that Cruz would lose and lose badly. The guy is a loon, and, to me, only slightly less repulsive than Trump. It is going to be a very interesting campaign. The GOP may set a new record for campaign spending for a President: -$100M. Yes, Negative. Can you see the ads they’d run?: “Dear Voter/Women/non-white/educated person: 'We Fucked UP with our nominating process and came up with candidates we believe will destroy America’s credibility and power in the global community. Please vote for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. We hope you will stay with us as we rebuild our Party. Profoundly Sorry” Goldwater was sunk by a single commercial which ran exactly ONCE. At least it was the Dems which ran it. Now we see the GOP trying to torpedo its own candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/25 "2016-03-24T06:08:49Z")
> [@Personal](#): > > I think the Libertarian convention is at the end of May. Whoever they nominate might change his mind for the good of the party. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/26 "2016-03-24T14:44:00Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You seem to confuse involving the people, which is an excellent idea, with that causing insane candidates. Hint: it doesn’t, or at least doesn’t have to. > > You seem to confuse involving the people, which is an excellent idea, with adopting positions based on faith and fantasy not on science & knowledge. Hint: it doesn’t, or at least doesn’t have to. I find it ironic that the many of the same people who are aghast at Trump, are supporters of universal suffrage. Trumps and Obamas only come along when you swell the voter rolls with those whose worlds are centered around faith and fantasy and not on science & knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/27 "2016-03-24T14:55:57Z")
Actually Trumps & such come along when first you do work for universal suffrage which is a pure social good. And then next a vast propaganda machine is created by malign forces which works for years to convince these people to be as controllable and as backwards as possible. If we can prevent that second step good things happen. If not; not. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/28 "2016-03-24T15:01:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why are these two words ever even associated?! Because that’s what Republicans believe. Anyone to the left of Ted Cruz is a liberal, including Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/29 "2016-03-24T15:42:15Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > next a vast propaganda machine is created by malign forces Reminds me of Fred Reed’s latest blog masterpiece:🙂 > [@](#): > > "After years of peace, the Kingdoms were taken greatly aback by the rise of the Trump Monster, their surprise being proof that they knew nothing of the surrounding lands. They knew nothing for good reasons, of which there were two. The first was that they passed their lives with each other and among each other and talking to each other and writing about each other and reading about each other behind the high walls of their kingdoms. In organs like National Review and The Weekly Standard they endlessly wrote stories of the form “A soothsayer in Manhattan replies to what some other sayer of sooths said about yet another’s attack on someone else.” > [@](#): > > “Furthermore, the scribes and oracles of the Kingdoms said aloud only those things that were meet for the surrounding peasantry to hear. The puissant spell of Political Correctness amounted to a societal mute button and prevented the Holy Orders within the Three Kingdoms from noticing what stirred without.” [It Cometh from the Pit: And Hath a Knout](http://fredoneverything.org/it-cometh-from-the-pitand-hath-a-knout/) ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/30 "2016-03-24T15:49:41Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > [QUOTE=salon article] > To get on the ballot in Georgia and be eligible for the state’s 16 electoral votes… [/QUOTE] Off topic, but: Can’t the electors vote for whoever they want? Isn’t it a little presumptuous for the state of Georgia to tell them who is eligible for their vote? I understand Georgia can run their elections however they want, but Presidential electors, once chosen, are federal officials. It’s like Georgia telling a US Senator what bills they’re allowed to vote on. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/31 "2016-03-24T15:59:19Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Off topic, but: Can’t the electors vote for whoever they want? I guess this is getting lost within all the bitching and moaning about the parties deciding and not the people. And if the electors can’t do it then the House of Representatives does. But of course the people voted for the HOR, so there’s that. It sometimes gets lost that this is a Republic with some democratic machinery bolted on to it. It’s not a pure democracy, which has its own problems. As the old saying goes, “a pure democracy is 2 wolves and sheep voting what’s for dinner”. Tyranny of the majority and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/32 "2016-03-24T17:13:51Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > I find it ironic that the many of the same people who are aghast at Trump, are supporters of universal suffrage. > > Trumps and Obamas only come along when you swell the voter rolls with those whose worlds are centered around faith and fantasy and not on science & knowledge. So tell me, which part of the citizenry is it that you believe doesn’t deserve the vote? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/33 "2016-03-24T17:15:11Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > So tell me, which part of the citizenry is it that you believe doesn’t deserve the vote? The wrong ones. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/34 "2016-03-24T17:28:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > So tell me, which part of the citizenry is it that you believe doesn’t deserve the vote? I don’t have a magic formula and would want to tread lightly as possible here, so I would start with one simple test. Those on individual public assistance. It’s an obvious conflict of interest. The same principle used when a city councilman or judge recuse themselves when they stand to benefit directly by their decision. And their vote would not be lost forever, only suspended while on public assistance. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/35 "2016-03-24T17:52:52Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > I don’t have a magic formula and would want to tread lightly as possible here, so I would start with one simple test. > > Those on individual public assistance. It’s an obvious conflict of interest. The same principle used when a city councilman or judge recuse themselves when they stand to benefit directly by their decision. > > And their vote would not be lost forever, only suspended while on public assistance. While that might be a (very) minor motivator for people to get off welfare, the analogy is fallacious. Unless they’re voting against a candidate who absolutely will eliminate welfare or for one who absolutely will increase it (and in Washington, the only absolutes are written on monuments and pretty much ignored by those in power), there is no conflict of interest, certainly not a direct one. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/36 "2016-03-24T18:03:06Z")
Thanks JA I was prepared for an ad hominem type response changing the subject to racism or whatnot, instead of sticking with the conflict of interest argument. While I don’t share your definition I do appreciate you staying squarely with the filter I proposed. I also expand my assistance filter to corporations getting grants and tax breaks. Let’s have a Citizens United type rule aimed only at them. If you are a corp that takes no public money you can do what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/37 "2016-03-24T18:07:40Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > I also expand my assistance filter to corporations getting grants and tax breaks. Let’s have a Citizens United type rule aimed only at them. If you are a corp that takes no public money you can do what you want. And anyone taking the capital gains subsidy on their tax return. Allowing them to vote is a big conflict of interest. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/38 "2016-03-24T18:10:08Z")
If you pay taxes you should also not vote because hey, you are going to vote for less taxes. Clear conflict. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/39 "2016-03-24T18:15:29Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > I don’t have a magic formula and would want to tread lightly as possible here, so I would start with one simple test. > > Those on individual public assistance. It’s an obvious conflict of interest. The same principle used when a city councilman or judge recuse themselves when they stand to benefit directly by their decision. > > And their vote would not be lost forever, only suspended while on public assistance. It’s not a conflict of interest. It _is_ their interest. Should petroleum workers lose the franchise if there is a remote possibility that a politician will vote on the Keystone Pipeline? Should farmers lose their vote because of all the special laws that govern agriculture? Laws effect people. That’s _why_ the people are given a vote. What you’re saying is that people who are effected by laws shouldn’t vote. What you are advocating is a monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740/40 "2016-03-24T18:19:42Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > Thanks JA > > I was prepared for an ad hominem type response changing the subject to racism or whatnot, instead of sticking with the conflict of interest argument. > > While I don’t share your definition I do appreciate you staying squarely with the filter I proposed. > > I also expand my assistance filter to corporations getting grants and tax breaks. Let’s have a Citizens United type rule aimed only at them. If you are a corp that takes no public money you can do what you want. Soitunly. 🙂 That last, while it might be satisfying, is a completely unworkable quagmire, especially with the Capitol awash in business-interest funds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-republicans-run-third-party-against-trump/749740.md?page=3)