# Could RFK Jr. Really Become HHS Secretary? {Yes, he did} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 30, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451 "2024-10-30T16:19:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/362 "2025-09-09T18:07:19Z")
I think it’s pretty impressive that as many as 23% of Americans are completely up-to-date on every vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2025, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/363 "2025-09-10T08:07:05Z")
I read an interesting story today about how Kennedy was consulting with a man who believes Tylenol causes autism. Specifically he is not talking about Tylenol during pregnancy but Tylenol given in infancy and early childhood. While this theory is completely unproven, it does get away from blaming vaccines and instead blames the Tylenol given for fevers after vaccination. In addition, it notes that Kennedy asked about the Swedish study ( huge study from 2024 showing no link between Tylenol in preganancy and autism or ADHD) so at least we know that he is aware of that study. > **[RFK Jr.’s Calls With a Scientist Who Says Kids Get Autism From Tylenol](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/09/rfk-jr-autism-tylenol-acetaminophen/684136/)** > > William Parker, a fringe autism researcher, has spoken with the health secretary five times in the past month. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/364 "2025-09-11T02:48:35Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Also, RFK Jr’s thinking, while quite wrong, does have “some semblance of scientific thinking.” He is correct that vaccines are hardly ever tested against placebo This statement is completely, utterly and incredibly false. It is standard practice for new vaccines to be tested against placebos before approval. RFK Jr. and other antivaxers, when they’re not lying about no placebo testing, say the only valid placebo is inert (saline) placebo, which they claim hasn’t been used in vaccine trials - another lie. Many vaccines have been tested against saline placebos. New vaccines are often evaluated against a control group which gets an earlier version of the vaccine. That’s done because it would be unethical to expose a control group to potential infection when a proven safe and efficacious vaccine already exists. Example: clinical trials of a new and better pertussis vaccine having a control group that receives DTaP, so all individuals receive some protection from the disease. > **[The Saline Placebo Pyramid](https://vaxopedia.org/2024/07/22/the-saline-placebo-pyramid/)** > > Discover the truth about vaccines and saline placebos. Learn how many vaccines were actually tested using a saline placebo. More on placebo testing in vaccine studies: > **[Fact Checked: Childhood Vaccines Are Carefully Studied—Including with...](https://www.aap.org/en/news-room/fact-checked/fact-checked-childhood-vaccines-are-carefully-studiedincluding-with-placebosto-ensure-theyre-safe-and-effective/)** > > Every vaccine recommended for children has undergone extensive research—including clinical trials that often use placebos or comparison groups—to ensure it is safe and effective. Once approved, vaccines continue to be monitored for safety. > **[Were vaccines tested against placebos?](https://www.voicesforvaccines.org/jtf_topics/why-arent-vaccines-tested-against-placebos/)** > > Vaccines are sometimes tested against other vaccines or adjuvants instead of saline placebos to protect participants’ health when an effective vaccine is already available. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/365 "2025-09-11T10:52:01Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It is standard practice for new vaccines to be tested against placebos before approval. As indicated in my earlier post, and even in your own links, this is only ethical and true if there was no prior vaccine or inoculation for that disease, or maybe in an early stage of testing where you were not testing for effectiveness. Our only possible factual disagreement is over what percent of vaccines are for diseases never previously addressed, and thus could be ethically tested against placebo. I’m pretty sure, thinking about how even the first Jenner smallpox vaccine was properly tested with a prior preventative (and that there were a bunch of new smallpox vaccine formulas introduced over the next 150 years), that this percent is under 50, but admit not having proof. In any event, RFK Jr is right that vaccines are often not tested against placebo and wrong that this is a problem. We may have a disagreement over tone to use in criticizing Kennedy more than in substance. P.S. I will withdraw the phrase “hardly ever” in my earlier post. “Under 50 percent” seems more defensible. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/366 "2025-09-11T12:31:04Z")
Nope, not remotely defensible. I suspect your confusion may be at least partially based on a definition of placebo that is narrowly confined to saline or water. Other valid placebos include a solution consisting only of vaccine adjuvant (lacking the antigens that stimulate a specific immune response) or a prior vaccine. Junior and his enablers depend on a narrow, rigid definition of adjuvant, and insist on “long-term” placebo safety trials - “long-term” in their view being many years, though any safety issues can be detected far more rapidly. This article may help clarify matters. > **[Despite Kennedy’s claims, vaccines have been tested in placebo-controlled...](https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/05/health/vaccine-placebo-studies-kennedy)** > > US Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has repeatedly claimed in public statements that most vaccines recommended for children in the US have not been tested against placebos, and particularly inert placebos such as saline... ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/367 "2025-09-11T15:51:02Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > This article may help clarify matters. We are going down a rathole. Kennedy’s claim that everything should be tested against placebo is unethical and, I hope, impractical. Placebo controlled testing is only OK for a first generation vaccine. Even if CNN is correct that “at least nine of the 16 vaccines that are routinely recommended by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for children have been tested against inert placebos,” that’s not anything to be proud (or ashamed) of, because before long there will be new and improved versions that were tested against the first generation vaccine. The first generation vaccines for diphtheria, pertussis, and tetanus (the separate ones, not the combination) are all more than a century old. That’s not what my grandchildren get now (or I might get as a booster). Even if some of the newer vaccines are first generation and thus tested against placebo, that shouldn’t be true for long, because there will be new and improved. And if we want to be honest, and we should, even the original diphtheria, pertussis, and tetanus vaccines were not tested against placebo, good as the testing was. There is not just one “gold standard” way to do science . ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/368 "2025-09-11T17:28:29Z")
To summarize: RFK Jr. is dead wrong on the subject of vaccine placebo testing, as he’s been wrong on every other facet of immunization. For those who haven’t dug in their heels defending his placebo testing claim: **The Testing Progression** To put it all together, here’s how vaccine testing typically progresses: 1. _New Vaccine Technology:_ - Starts with true saline placebo trials - Must establish basic safety before any other comparisons 1. _Iterations of Proven Technology:_ - May use active placebos or comparator vaccines - Only after the platform’s basic safety is established _3. Competing Products:_ - Often compared to existing licensed vaccines - Must first demonstrate basic safety or have done so in previous studies - Focus on proving “non-inferiority” to existing options > **[All Childhood Vaccines Were Tested Against Placebos — Here’s the Evidence](https://medium.com/@jsteier_29203/all-childhood-vaccines-were-tested-against-placebos-heres-the-evidence-e90487c94624)** > > Most Used Inert (Saline) Controls. When They Didn’t, Science and Ethics Tell Us Why ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/369 "2025-09-11T18:54:25Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > [All Childhood Vaccines Were Tested Against Placebos — Here’s the Evidence | by Dr. Jess Steier | Medium](https://medium.com/@jsteier_29203/all-childhood-vaccines-were-tested-against-placebos-heres-the-evidence-e90487c94624) Following links, I do see a placebo controlled study in Sweden, in the 1980’s, for the pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine. This was ethical because Swedish babies were not getting any pertussis vaccine at the time. So on that, I stand corrected. Fortunately for the children of Sweden, diphtheria and tetanus were already in the vaccine schedule so those Swedish studies were done differently. If anyone wants to see a RFK Jr critique meeting my seal of approval: > **[My Conversation with Robert F. Kennedy Jr.](https://pauloffit.substack.com/p/my-conversation-with-robert-f-kennedy)** > > Twenty years ago, I had a one-hour conversation with RFK Jr. In his current campaign for president, he has referred to that conversation during public appearances. It’s time to set the record straight Most leaders respond to financial incentives. “[It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Upton_Sinclair)” So this from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Health_Defense) is relevant: > [@](#): > > Kennedy’s [after-tax] compensation has risen with [Children’s Health Defense] revenue. According to federal tax returns filed by the group, his salary was $131,000 in 2017, rising to $345,000 in 2020, and eventually totaling $500,000 for 2021 and 2022. In 2023, Kennedy was paid $326,000 for 15 weeks of work before taking leave to run for president. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/370 "2025-09-13T02:22:01Z")
> **[RFK Jr.’s CDC may limit COVID shots to 75 and up, claim they killed kids](https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/09/covid-shot-access-could-tighten-rfk-jr-may-claim-they-cause-child-deaths/)** > > A battle is brewing over mRNA vaccines, which could intensify backlash against Kennedy. And it’s all Trump’s fault with his Operation Warp Speed in his first administration. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/371 "2025-09-13T02:43:07Z")
Just a quick note that YouTube is filled with many of RFK Jr’s appearances before Congress, and they’re hilarious. He’s been called “astoundingly ignorant”, “a liar”, “dangerous”, and many other fun things. There was a compilation on MSNBC featuring him claiming one thing in his testimony, followed by a clip of him previously having said the opposite. Truly one of Trump’s finer nominations. He must really be enjoying these grillings, and he can’t really avoid them. It’s fine schadenfreude! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/372 "2025-09-13T15:38:28Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [RFK Jr.’s CDC may limit COVID shots to 75 and up, claim they killed kids - Ars Technica](https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/09/covid-shot-access-could-tighten-rfk-jr-may-claim-they-cause-child-deaths/) Vaccines are less effective among the elderly and, depending on the vaccine, less effective in general when used sparingly rather than widely. While you would still save a significant number of lives by only vaccinating the elderly, the average age of death in the US would also certainly slowly come down over the course of the next few decades (if, for example, this became the law of the land, somehow). I suppose that Trump might spare some Social Security money… ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/373 "2025-09-17T16:14:46Z")
RFK Jr. is literally wrong about _everything._ [https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/09/16/nx-s1-5543271/rfk-jr-mental-health-screening-schools-stigma](https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/09/16/nx-s1-5543271/rfk-jr-mental-health-screening-schools-stigma) How many school shootings have probably been averted because we caught serious problems beforehand? But this goes along with him blaming psychiatric medications for everything. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/374 "2025-09-17T18:28:26Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I’m convinced that the main reason Trump appointed RFK Jr. to this position was simply to piss off the libs. This is the ‘qualification’ for most of his appointees except for Marco Rubio, who he made Secretary of State just so he could humiliate him by making him grovel and then dismissing any initiative or vaguely positive action he might take, and Russ Vought who is actually doing the heavy lifting in dismantling the administrative faculties of federal government with little oversight or coverage by the mainstream press. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/375 "2025-09-23T02:08:11Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > [@joebuck20](#): > > > > I’m convinced that the main reason Trump appointed RFK Jr. to this position was simply to piss off the libs. > > This is the ‘qualification’ for most of his appointees That and blind loyalty, which I suspect is even more important. ---
**Author:** ![TeroSunbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terosunbear/32/14748_2.png) [@TeroSunbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeroSunbear)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/376 "2025-09-23T12:18:33Z")
The White House posted some links to Tylenol and autism. One study in particular was focused on acetaminophen in the babies at birth. Those things are compiled and tabulated. The paper fails to state how the ASD (autism) diagnosis was made. Rather strange for a psychiatry paper. It never says that the 996 children were studied individually by a psychiatrist. Let alone in a double-blind study. The doctor should not know about the acetaminophen data. More likely the mothers had cause to have their child diagnosed. So what we can in fact conclude is that mothers taking Tylenol are more likely to take their child to a professional for ADHD or ASD than mothers who do not take Tylenol. (link below) [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2753512](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2753512) ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/377 "2025-09-23T15:20:48Z")
> [@TeroSunbear](#): > > One study in particular was focused on acetaminophen in the babies at birth. Those things are compiled and tabulated. Here is a summary of the findings of a far larger study: [nature, 22 September 2025](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-02876-1) > [@](#): > > Ahlqvist harnessed data on nearly 2.5 million children born in Sweden between 1995 and 2019 and — from the country’s extensive health records — data on acetaminophen prescriptions during pregnancy and on self-reported use collected by midwives, as well as whether children later received autism diagnoses. > > The study showed that around 1.42% of children exposed to acetaminophen during pregnancy were autistic, compared to 1.33% of children who were not exposed ─ a “very small” difference, says Ahlqvist. > > The team also compared pairs of siblings (born to the same mother), one of whom had been exposed to acetaminophen and one who had not. Siblings share half of their genome, and share a similar upbringing and mother’s background health, so any detected difference in autism between siblings is more likely to be due to the drug. The researchers found no association between acetaminophen and autism using this method — which supports the idea that links found in other studies were really explained by confounding factors. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/378 "2025-09-23T15:31:16Z")
So (as one would expect from this crew) just more junk “science” and I wonder whether the Tylenol manufacturer will sue over this brand-name libel. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/379 "2025-09-23T15:37:19Z")
And _I_ wonder whether Trump and his cronies recently shorted [**NYSE: KVUE**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenvue). Hm. ETA: (from Forbes – paywalled, but I grabbed this first): > Kenvue shares rose about 6.2% to around $18 as trading opened Tuesday, following an earlier rally in premarket while rebounding from a 7.4% drop on Monday as the stock hit a record low of $16.89. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/380 "2025-09-23T15:51:09Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > . . . I wonder whether the Tylenol manufacturer will sue over this brand-name libel. Not a chance. Just the opposite will happen – for fear of lawsuits, they will highlight current labeling telling pregnant women to ask their doctor before taking. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451/381 "2025-09-23T15:51:20Z")
Would totally not surprise me, and that’s a good explanation for why “Tylenol” rather than “acetaminophen”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-rfk-jr-really-become-hhs-secretary-yes-he-did/1009451.md?page=20)