# Could Sen. Kerry vote against a nominee who gave $$$ against him? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026 "2007-02-28T15:34:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/21 "2007-03-02T04:21:06Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] That observation is not really consistent with the comment that appears to be saying that the question is legitimate but it would be better, politically, for Kerry not to be the foremost questioner. _::: shrug :::_ [/QUOTE] I just have my doubts that Mr. Kerry could have made a decision that **Mr. Moto** could have stood behind. I have difficulty taking at face value threads started by people of one political persuasion offering “advice” for people of the opposite political persuasion. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/22 "2007-03-02T14:02:05Z")
I didn’t start this thread. And while I have started others criticizing various aspects of Democratic policy, it pales in comparison with criticism of Republican positions on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/23 "2007-03-02T14:41:07Z")
Well, I started the thread. Full disclosure: I voted for Kerry, did some volunteer work and donated to his campaign. I was just interested in people’s reaction to the situation, and their views on the ethical bases for a senator’s vote. I offered no advice. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/24 "2007-03-02T14:53:45Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] And while I have started others criticizing various aspects of Democratic policy, it pales in comparison with criticism of Republican positions on this board. [/QUOTE] And elsewhere. You do realize your party is in trouble, don’t you? Look at this [shit from Phyllis Schlafly](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/mason/4595346.html): > [@](#): > > “We don’t want to be the Republican Party, we want to be the conservative movement,” said Phyllis Schlafly, legendary doyenne of the right. "We cannot afford to be ‘Bush Republicans.’ " Perhaps rather than offering advice to the living, the grievously wounded should look towards methods of healing their own injuries. Many of us Dems would be _happy_ to offer advice, if you’d only ask. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/25 "2007-03-02T15:09:02Z")
Oh, trust me. I offer advice to my fellow conservatives and Republicans all of the time. I just don’t do it here, since there are precious few of us around to have that particular conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/26 "2007-03-29T04:57:07Z")
Latest development: the nomination was pulled. > **[News, Politics, Sports, Mail & Latest Headlines](https://www.aol.com/news/)** > > Get breaking news and the latest headlines on business, entertainment, politics, world news, tech, sports, videos and much more from AOL ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/27 "2007-03-29T06:34:34Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I guess my question is, could he properly or ethically vote against a Bush ambassadorial nominee _just because_ that person gave to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth in '04? [/QUOTE] Yes. He’s a senator, not a judge; he doesn’t have to recuse himself from voting in a matter in which he has a personal interest/grudge. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/28 "2007-03-29T15:04:18Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Yes. He’s a senator, not a judge; he doesn’t have to recuse himself from voting in a matter in which he has a personal interest/grudge. [/QUOTE] Not true. Ethically he is responsible to not vote on matters where he has a personal financial interest. That’s not the case here, but it is indeed the case that senators have to recuse themselves from certain votes. Usually this is done by recording a vote of “present”. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/29 "2007-03-29T16:23:08Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Not true. Ethically he is responsible to not vote on matters where he has a personal financial interest. [/QUOTE] One might argue that personal financial interest was as a [former] presidential candidate, and not as a [current] Senator. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/30 "2007-03-29T16:48:15Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] I just have my doubts that Mr. Kerry could have made a decision that **Mr. Moto** could have stood behind. I have difficulty taking at face value threads started by people of one political persuasion offering “advice” for people of the opposite political persuasion. [/QUOTE] I have difficulty reading any thread that has to do with politics because it ALWAYS ends up being a “Yeah, well what about them?” thread. The OP is a fair question which reasonable people can debate. Whether Mr. Moto is a Rush Limbaugh Republican or a yellow dog Democrat doesn’t really matter. My input: He certainly can vote against a nominee for any reason, but I agree that it doesn’t help his reputation or his own party’s cause. On the other hand, Fox should have considered that there’d be a day when the very people he attacked would be sitting in this very position. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/31 "2007-03-29T22:50:40Z")
[QUOTE=PunditLisa] On the other hand, Fox should have considered that there’d be a day when the very people he attacked would be sitting in this very position. [/QUOTE] I doubt that is the case, as prior to this past November the mantra of the GOP was “a permanent Republican majority.” Rove and Nordquist et al. truly believed that they had many election cycles of dominance ahead, so the idea that their nominees would have to face Democratic controlled congressional committees was not on the radar. Given that the GOP-controlled Congress had abdicated virtually all oversight for the previous six years, I think that also explains a number of the other questionable things that are turning up, such as the FBI misuse of Patriot Act provisions. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/32 "2007-04-04T21:02:59Z")
[Bush bypasses Senate to name ambassador](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070404/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_outflanking_congress_4) > [@](#): > > President Bush named Republican fundraiser Sam Fox as U.S. ambassador to Belgium on Wednesday, using a maneuver that allowed him to bypass Congress where Democrats had derailed Fox’s nomination. > … > Recognizing Fox did not have the votes to obtain Senate confirmation, Bush withdrew the nomination last month. On Wednesday, with Congress out of town for a spring break, the president used his power to make recess appointments to put Fox in the job without Senate confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/33 "2007-04-04T21:44:46Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] [Bush bypasses Senate to name ambassador](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070404/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_outflanking_congress_4) [/QUOTE] I hope the man lives to regret this. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/34 "2007-04-04T21:51:32Z")
[QUOTE=BarnOwl] I hope the man lives to regret this. [/QUOTE] That’s building a consensus. Remember how someone had to create a DVD to convince Bush that Katrina was happening? Maybe someone should make one of last November’s election coverage. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/35 "2007-04-04T21:58:42Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I think giving to the Swift Boat Liars For Bush is a perfectly legitimate reason to vote against a nominee. 527s and their politics of destruction have been a major negative force in American politics in recent years, someone that contributed to the scummiest of the lot isn’t fit to represent the nation. [/QUOTE] This may very well be true, but the question is if Kerry himself should recuse himself or not. Of course he should. If someone else wants to vote against him for that reason, more power to them. ---
**Author:** ![spazattak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@spazattak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazattak)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/36 "2007-04-04T22:19:26Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] This may very well be true, but the question is if Kerry himself should recuse himself or not. Of course he should. If someone else wants to vote against him for that reason, more power to them. [/QUOTE] why? Its a political appointment, not some criminal proceeding where a conflict of interest would could tip the scales of justice. Why shouldn’t political considerations be given to a political appointment (even if they’re personal)? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/37 "2007-04-04T22:21:23Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] This may very well be true, but the question is if Kerry himself should recuse himself or not. Of course he should. [/QUOTE] There’s no _need_ for Kerry to recuse himself. The Decider has already recused the entire senate. Do you think that was the right way for Bush to handle the situation, **magellan01**? Why continue to beat on a dead horse, when there’s a new, _living_ horse in town today? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/38 "2007-04-04T23:01:24Z")
[QUOTE=spazattak] why? Its a political appointment, not some criminal proceeding where a conflict of interest would could tip the scales of justice. Why shouldn’t political considerations be given to a political appointment (even if they’re personal)? [/QUOTE] The justice system is not the only place that ethics comes into play? (One could argue that ethichs is most wanting there, due to people mistaking what is right legally with what is right ethically. But that’s another discussion) Why do you even raise the issue? The ethical thing to do is for him to recuse himself. Kerry, like any other Senator enjoys a position of immense power. If there is an acknowledged personal dispute between he and another person who he can effect the life of, the honorable thing to do is recuse himself. Even in matters of legal justice, judges often recuse themselves to avoid the appearance of impropriety. For instance, when Ninth Circuit Judge Bryer has one of his cases go to the Supreme Court, his brother will sometimes recuse himself. (I assume if the reason for the appeal is some supposed failing on the part of Bryer the Lesser.) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/39 "2007-04-04T23:04:51Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] There’s no _need_ for Kerry to recuse himself. [/QUOTE] Define need. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026/40 "2007-04-04T23:09:09Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] This may very well be true, but the question is if Kerry himself should recuse himself or not. Of course he should. [/QUOTE] Yes, Kerry shouldn’t let personal considerations get in the way of national security matters like the decision of who is Ambassador to Belgium. The appointment is basically a reward for service to the president, so in that sense I guess Kerry is entitled to let it be a personal matter. Kerry’s got no responsibility to recuse himself, but this thing is petty all the way around. Fox should be ashamed of himself for the “I don’t remember who gave the money” thing, and for his comments about 527s, which were either total dishonesty or stupidity. And Bush is just giving the Senate the finger. [Insert comment about uniting-not-dividing/November remarks on bipartisanship/whatever else he said but obviously didn’t mean here.] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-sen-kerry-vote-against-a-nominee-who-gave-against-him/394026.md?page=3)