# Could Serena Willams beat any of the top 20 men. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 27, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286 "2013-08-27T10:20:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Caneknife](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Caneknife](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caneknife)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/1 "2013-08-27T10:20:06Z")
US Open Tennis on now, so was thinking if Serena Willams could beat any of the men in the top 20, I do not know, ive have read that she couldnt , what do u think. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/2 "2013-08-27T10:24:39Z")
She could maybe beat someone ranked [in the 300s](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/wimbledon/10148431/Wimbledon-2013-Serena-Williams-could-only-beat-men-ranked-in-the-300s-not-Andy-Murray-says-Jeff-Tarango.html) if it was for money and they got nervous. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/3 "2013-08-27T10:39:47Z")
And [here](http://blogs.bettor.com/Tennis-War-of-the-genders,-I-would-be-incomparable-in-mens-side-says-Serena-Williams-a14979) John McEnroe thinks she would rank about 600, Andy Murray thinks about 1,000. It is also revealed that in 1998 German tennis player Karsten Braasch ranked 203, beat Serena 6-1 and Venus 6-2 in friendly matches. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/4 "2013-08-27T12:18:08Z")
Not according to her. She said she’d lose 6-0, 6-0 to Andy Murray. She said that men hit the ball too hard, and are too fast to make it a fair competition vs a woman. > **[Serena Williams tells David Letterman she would lose 6-0, 6-0 to Andy Murray](https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/tennis-busted-racquet/serena-williams-tells-david-letterman-she-lose-6-205622798.html)** > > On Thursday, Serena Williams visited The Late Show with David Letterman to talk tennis, life and just about everything else. The U.S. Open kicks off next week, and Serena is the favorite to snag her second Grand Slam of the … Continue reading → ---
**Author:** ![fanganga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fanganga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fanganga)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/5 "2013-08-27T13:16:57Z")
I’m thinking of the old Battle of the Sexes games. Bobby Riggs was retired and past his prime and still won his first match. Billie Jean King beat him after long preparation by controlling the game so that her advantages as a young player outweighed his advantages as a male player. A currently ranking male player wouldn’t have Rigg’s disadvantage of age - maybe there would be other exploitable factors to make up for the difference in power, but going on what’s been said before, I guess not. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/6 "2013-08-27T14:14:38Z")
> [@fanganga](#): > > I’m thinking of the old Battle of the Sexes games. Bobby Riggs was retired and past his prime and still won his first match. Billie Jean King beat him after long preparation by controlling the game so that her advantages as a young player outweighed his advantages as a male player. A currently ranking male player wouldn’t have Rigg’s disadvantage of age - maybe there would be other exploitable factors to make up for the difference in power, but going on what’s been said before, I guess not. Interesting that you bring up the Riggs-King match. Have you seen this very recent [story](http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/9589625/the-match-maker) from ESPN, alleging that Riggs threw the match? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/7 "2013-08-27T14:21:35Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > She could maybe beat someone ranked [in the 300s](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/wimbledon/10148431/Wimbledon-2013-Serena-Williams-could-only-beat-men-ranked-in-the-300s-not-Andy-Murray-says-Jeff-Tarango.html) if it was for money and they got nervous. No she couldn’t. Top division 1 college guys would beat her in straights. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/8 "2013-08-27T14:22:45Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Not according to her. She said she’d lose 6-0, 6-0 to Andy Murray. She said that men hit the ball too hard, and are too fast to make it a fair competition vs a woman. > > [Serena Williams tells David Letterman she would lose 6-0, 6-0 to Andy Murray - Yahoo Sports](http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/tennis-busted-racquet/serena-williams-tells-david-letterman-she-lose-6-205622798.html) She is exactly right. But that fact doesn’t disparage the women’s game at all. The physical differences between women and men are just too great. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/9 "2013-08-27T15:40:54Z")
Moving over the The Game Room. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/10 "2013-08-27T16:04:19Z")
No, she couldn’t. Not even close. I’ve read that even the best female players regularly lose to their male practice partners. For reference, the #20-ranked man right now is Kevin Anderson. He’s 6’8", so he’s almost a foot taller than Serena, and he’s hit 150 more aces than she has this year. OK, so Anderson is unusually tall and serves better than average- but he’s not an exceptional player. He’s pretty successful but he’s never won a really big event and he has just a handful of career wins against the best players. And he’s much bigger and stronger than anybody Serena has ever played on the WTA Tour. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/11 "2013-08-27T16:09:17Z")
> [@fanganga](#): > > I’m thinking of the old Battle of the Sexes games. Bobby Riggs was retired and past his prime and still won his first match. Billie Jean King beat him after long preparation by controlling the game so that her advantages as a young player outweighed his advantages as a male player. A currently ranking male player wouldn’t have Rigg’s disadvantage of age - maybe there would be other exploitable factors to make up for the difference in power, but going on what’s been said before, I guess not. Very interesting article [here](http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/9589625/the-match-maker) suggests Riggs tanked the match. Those allegations have been around for years, but this piece contains previously unrevealed information about possible mob involvement. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/12 "2013-08-27T16:16:11Z")
I’m a huge Serena fan. People often joke (sometimes in a very mean-spirited way) about how athletic and muscular she is- and she is extremely athletic and muscular. She’s probably around 5’10", 165-175 lbs or so- mostly solid muscle. Compared to other women in the sport, she’s taller than most, faster than almost all, and way, way stronger and more powerful than all of them. But if you compared her to professional men’s tennis players, she’d be shorter than most, slower than most, and weaker than almost all of them. So no, she’d have no chance against a top 20 men’s player. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/13 "2013-08-27T16:23:19Z")
It should also be noted that Serena occasionally loses to other women. I think she’s clearly the best female tennis player- but the separation is not so great as to be invincible. ---
**Author:** ![fanganga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fanganga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fanganga)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/14 "2013-08-27T16:37:32Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Interesting that you bring up the Riggs-King match. Have you seen this very recent [story](http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/9589625/the-match-maker) from ESPN, alleging that Riggs threw the match? In spite of the fact that the article’s sufficiently well known to be brought up independently by both you and Oakminster, I haven’t. All I know about the match is from the wikipedia article (which I see now has a reference to the ESPN story). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/15 "2013-08-27T16:53:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It should also be noted that Serena occasionally loses to other women. I think she’s clearly the best female tennis player- but the separation is not so great as to be invincible. She’s not invincible, but I think she’s lost five times in the last year and in one or two of those she was dealing with injuries. Even in her early 30s she’s head and shoulders above the rest of the field, and by almost any estimation she’s the strongest and most athletic player in WTA history. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/16 "2013-08-27T17:01:56Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > She is exactly right. But that fact doesn’t disparage the women’s game at all. The physical differences between women and men are just too great. Yes, but I think there is even more to it than that. Even in non-athletic “sports” like chess, bowling, and billiards, women tend to do much worse on average at the elite level than men. I think a lot of it is cultural too. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/17 "2013-08-27T19:54:19Z")
I really would like to see Serena play a semi competitive 55 yr old John McEnroe. But there is no way that she beats any man playing the US Open this week. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/18 "2013-08-27T21:15:49Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > No she couldn’t. Top division 1 college guys would beat her in straights. I dunno about that, she’d be serving with a faster average speed than all of them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/19 "2013-08-28T00:44:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > She’s not invincible, but I think she’s lost five times in the last year and in one or two of those she was dealing with injuries. Even in her early 30s she’s head and shoulders above the rest of the field, and by almost any estimation she’s the strongest and most athletic player in WTA history. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/20 "2013-08-28T00:56:45Z")
Of course they were much younger then but Serena and Venus played a man back in 1998. Back then they were very cocky (and pushed by their father) and made the claim that they could beat any man ranked 200th or below. Karsten Braasch took them up on it. He was ranked 203. He played them one set each. Beat Venus 6-2 and Serena 6-1. He later said he was going easy on them to keep it fun. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286.md?page=2)