# Could Serena Willams beat any of the top 20 men. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 27, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286 "2013-08-27T10:20:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/101 "2017-06-29T04:10:48Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > IMO, Serena (and most of the women ranked in the top 20) could handily beat your average male tennis weekend warrier. But she’d have no chance against a professional man ranked in the top 1000. > > That being said, with the men’s game is evolving into more of a power game, I find myself enjoying women’s and/or doubles matches more. There is nothing more boring than an ace/ace/ace/ace game. Well, most men who have played and commented say anywhere between 200-700. And McEnroe did mention that unlike a low ranking male tennis player, Serena is more used to playing in big games, whereas a 500th ranked player might be a bundle of nerves. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/102 "2017-06-29T04:20:23Z")
The strange thing is, McEnroe was NOT looking to insult Serena Williams. He was on NPR raving about her, calling her the greatest female tennis player of all time (which she almost certainly is). The problem was that the hostess couldn’t let it go at that- she pressed McEnroe to state that Serena was, simply, the greatest TENNIS PLAYER of all time. Obviously, he couldn’t say that, since MANY male players are better than Serena. So, all his compliments were for naught! No one remembers all the great things he said about her, only that he said she wasn’t good enough to compete with the men. I will say this- women’s tennis has come a long way. Both the men’s game AND the women’s game are much faster and better than ever. Serena couldn’t possibly beat Nadal, Federer or Murray… but if she stepped into a time machine and came out in 1975, I think she could give Bjorn Borg and Jimmy Connors a run for their money (just as current women swimmers could trounce Johnny Weissmuller or Don Schollander). ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/103 "2017-06-29T07:52:40Z")
I would say 1930’s probably is a better example. Someone like Don Budge or Bobby Riggs (legitamatley World No 1 in his prime) would have a very competative match with Serena, and I think they would lose. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/104 "2017-06-29T15:34:40Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > The strange thing is, McEnroe was NOT looking to insult Serena Williams. He was on NPR raving about her, calling her the greatest female tennis player of all time (which she almost certainly is). The problem was that the hostess couldn’t let it go at that- she pressed McEnroe to state that Serena was, simply, the greatest TENNIS PLAYER of all time. > > Obviously, he couldn’t say that, since MANY male players are better than Serena. > > So, all his compliments were for naught! No one remembers all the great things he said about her, only that he said she wasn’t good enough to compete with the men. When the truth offends… ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/105 "2017-06-29T19:25:35Z")
> [@Caneknife](#): > > US Open Tennis on now, so was thinking if Serena Willams could beat any of the men in the top 20, I do not know, ive have read that she couldnt , what do u think. Not a chance, unless the opponent suffers and injury and withdraws or tanks it. Williams actually did play a man once. During the 1998 Australian Open, sisters Serena and Venus Williams boasted that they could beat any man ranked outside the world’s top 200. The challenge was accepted by Karsten Braasch, a German player ranked No 203 (his highest ranking was No 38). Before the matches, Braasch played a round of golf in the morning, drank a couple of beers, smoked a few cigarettes, and then played the Williams sisters for a set each, one after the other. **He defeated Serena, 6-1, and Venus, 6-2.** Serena said afterwards “I didn’t know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women’s tour and he got to them easily.” In 1999 when Serena Williams was 18 and ranked 4th in the world, she re-opened the debate on whether women can compete with men in professional sport. The US Open champion believed she could take on and beat the best players in the men’s game - she even applied for a wild card entry to take part in a men’s singles event, the Eurocard Open, but this did not eventuate, mainly because she could not compete as she was not a man. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/106 "2017-06-29T19:39:18Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > The strange thing is, McEnroe was NOT looking to insult Serena Williams. He was on NPR raving about her, calling her the greatest female tennis player of all time (which she almost certainly is). The problem was that the hostess couldn’t let it go at that- she pressed McEnroe to state that Serena was, simply, the greatest TENNIS PLAYER of all time. > > Obviously, he couldn’t say that, since MANY male players are better than Serena. > > So, all his compliments were for naught! No one remembers all the great things he said about her, only that he said she wasn’t good enough to compete with the men. > > I will say this- women’s tennis has come a long way. Both the men’s game AND the women’s game are much faster and better than ever. Serena couldn’t possibly beat Nadal, Federer or Murray… but if she stepped into a time machine and came out in 1975, I think she could give Bjorn Borg and Jimmy Connors a run for their money (just as current women swimmers could trounce Johnny Weissmuller or Don Schollander). > [@Velocity](#): > > When the truth offends… The best part about this was Serena’s response of basically “Quit talking about things you don’t know about and leave me alone in my pregnancy thank you” as if it were his idea and he just randomly came at this out of the blue. I swear, people who get offended (Especially celebrities) have no idea what the concept of “context” is. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/107 "2017-06-30T03:39:47Z")
It’s a big turnaround from when Serena was talking trash about how she could beat top rated men. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/108 "2017-06-30T04:38:15Z")
She was about half her current age. Immature. And probably less secure as a young and up and coming player then she is now, as 23 time Grand Slam winner. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/109 "2017-06-30T04:46:02Z")
Sounds like she’s a different kind of insecure now. Really, McEnroe was actually talking about something he knew about, and he was being truthful. It wasn’t insulting, anymore than it would be insulting to say that Muhammed Ali would get his ass kicked if he tried to fight a grizzly bear. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/110 "2017-06-30T05:17:51Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > The best part about this was Serena’s response of basically “Quit talking about things you don’t know about and leave me alone in my pregnancy thank you” as if it were his idea and he just randomly came at this out of the blue. > > I swear, people who get offended (Especially celebrities) have no idea what the concept of “context” is. And the Huffington Post, of course, furthers the fake uproar: [Serena Williams Handles John McEnroe’s **Sexist Insult** Like The Boss She Is](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/serena-williams-john-mcenroe_us_5951c1f5e4b05c37bb78e943) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/111 "2017-06-30T10:19:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sounds like she’s a different kind of insecure now. Really, McEnroe was actually talking about something he knew about, and he was being truthful. It wasn’t insulting, anymore than it would be insulting to say that Muhammed Ali would get his ass kicked if he tried to fight a grizzly bear. Oh come on. Serena barely responded. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/112 "2017-06-30T13:25:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Oh come on. Serena barely responded. But she DID respond. Why, if she wasn’t bothered, or isn’t insecure? It was a silly response. Does she think she is off-limits to discussion? Sorry, part of the bargain when you are a pro athlete is that people will discuss your talent and rank you against other players. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/113 "2017-06-30T19:20:58Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I really would like to see Serena play a semi competitive 55 yr old John McEnroe. > > But there is no way that she beats any man playing the US Open this week. I think this is what McEnroe is angling for. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/114 "2017-06-30T19:31:04Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > I’d go further and say that no woman could beat any of the world’s top 20 men in any non-judged individual sport that doesn’t involve horses. Or guns. AFAICT, women are comparable to men and the pool of male competitive shooters is much much deeper than the pool of female shooters. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/115 "2017-06-30T19:34:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’d disagree with that. I’d think a woman might have a chance in a shooting or archery competition. > > And there’s Danica Patrick, who is reasonably competitive with men in various types of car racing. ninja’d I forgot about archery, mostly because there are even fewer female archers (at least until the Katniss kids get old enough to compete). ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/116 "2017-06-30T19:39:57Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > And the Huffington Post, of course, furthers the fake uproar: [Serena Williams Handles John McEnroe’s **Sexist Insult** Like The Boss She Is](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/serena-williams-john-mcenroe_us_5951c1f5e4b05c37bb78e943) Whaaaat? The Huffington post is overblowing a story and putting unneeded feminist underones behind it purely to pander to its readership?? I don’t believe it! ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/117 "2017-06-30T19:51:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s a big turnaround from when Serena was talking trash about how she could beat top rated men. Wow, I don’t remember that. When did she do that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/118 "2017-06-30T19:51:29Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > But she DID respond. Why, if she wasn’t bothered, or isn’t insecure? It was a silly response. Does she think she is off-limits to discussion? Sorry, part of the bargain when you are a pro athlete is that people will discuss your talent and rank you against other players. She’s human, and she had a thought and tweeted. Big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/119 "2017-06-30T19:52:13Z")
I’m not so sure about archery. A woman is going to need a lighter-draw bow than a man, and while that will be a smaller disadvantage in some archery events than others, it’s never going to be an advantage. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286/120 "2017-06-30T21:04:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Could Serena Willams beat any of the top 20 men Sure, if she had a big enough stick. I’m not sure they would even have to be tied up, she seems pretty tough to me… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-serena-willams-beat-any-of-the-top-20-men/667286.md?page=7)