# Could some popular singers have made it as opera singers, given the training? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2012, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304 "2012-10-30T05:38:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/21 "2012-10-30T16:47:20Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I won’t say you’re wrong about Freddy, but I should point out that most of Queen’s highest falsetto vocals were provided by drummer Roger Taylor, not by Freddy. I don’t know of any opera where a tenor or baritone needs to sing in falsetto. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/22 "2012-10-30T16:49:33Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Bruce Dickenson! I can very well imagine the he takes singing lessons. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/23 "2012-10-30T16:50:34Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Bruce Dickenson! Dickinson was almost a fencer, not an opera singer. And he’s a pilot. A very cool dude. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/24 "2012-10-30T16:56:27Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I don’t know of any opera where a tenor or baritone needs to sing in falsetto. Perhaps not (although there are certainly moments where one might for character reasons), but there are a few countertenor roles out there too. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/25 "2012-10-30T17:02:32Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Dickinson was almost a fencer, not an opera singer. And he’s a pilot. A very cool dude. Almost a fencer? He almost was made it to the Olympics. He is also a trainspotter, I think. At least he’s hosted a television program about old engines. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/26 "2012-10-30T17:27:34Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > There’s a corollary to the OP: No opera singer should EVER sing pop. It depends: most opera singers are unable to sing pop, but I think Alfredo Kraus would have been able to and his daughter Patricia does it well too. I once watched a program where the Kraus family, José Carreras and Plácido Domingo sang popular Christmas carols: the Kraus didn’t sound like “opera singers” at all, you could sing along with them; the other two? Impossible, specially Domingo - they took two songs which most people sing while playing anise bottles, washing boards and finger cymbals, and turned them into excuses to show off. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/27 "2012-10-30T17:42:26Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Perhaps not (although there are certainly moments where one might for character reasons), but there are a few countertenor roles out there too. That’s true. The only one I can think of is Carmina Burana, and that’s not even an opera. ---
**Author:** ![janis\_and\_c0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janis_and_c0/32/21_2.png) [@janis\_and\_c0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janis_and_c0)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/28 "2012-10-30T17:43:53Z")
I think Art Garfunkel could’ve sung opera with the proper training. (& yeah, another vote for Freddie Mercury, too.) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/29 "2012-10-30T18:03:01Z")
I think Steve Perry, at least in his Journey days, could have trained as an opera singer. And who knows, maybe Brad Delp? ---
**Author:** ![ads95](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5daacb/32.png) [@ads95](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ads95)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/30 "2012-10-30T18:05:16Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Popped back in to say that. He did sing an opera-type ballad in his solo career. I’m shocked that there were 13 replies before he was mentioned. The opera ballad he co-wrote is called “Barcelona” ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/31 "2012-10-30T18:13:18Z")
Possibly Robert Plant (“Whole Lotta Love”) and Steven Tyler (“Dream On”). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/32 "2012-10-30T18:28:25Z")
Sarah Brightman. IMO, Kristen Chenoweth. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/33 "2012-10-30T19:00:06Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > There’s a corollary to the OP: No opera singer should EVER sing pop. I don’t know, Emmy Rossum does a pretty good job [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiLcw4juIMk). ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/34 "2012-10-30T19:04:21Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > I remember on one of those. syndicated radio shows a couple decades ago Roger Daltrey of The Who said he was told that he could have made it as an opera singer if he had trained for it. He did play the main role MacHeath in a 1983 BBC production of John Gay’s ballad opera “The Beggars Opera”. > Personally, I always thought Daltrey’s range was a bit limited and he may have been exaggerating. > [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > And **Jim’s Son** , that’s uh, interesting about Roger Daltry ( I know you’re just relaying a story you heard) His[del] shouting[/del] singing voice has always been not only completely unappealing to me but as you mention, lacking in range. ## Limited range, limited power, erratic pitch. Ridiculous candidate, IMO. And no mention yet of **Linda Ronstadt**?? ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/35 "2012-10-30T19:11:17Z")
Ian Gillan of Deep Purple had the pipes for it; he did a lot of non-rock stuff, and his power and control were incredible: [check out his duel with Ritchie Blackmore’s guitar from about 6.30 onwards.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRUW_T-WDA) ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/36 "2012-10-30T19:12:00Z")
[Kyo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyo_(musician))of melodic/alt metal band [Dir en Grey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dir_En_Grey), hugely popular in Japan and with a small but dedicated following in North America. [This review](http://www.rockworldmagazine.com/articledisplay.cfm?id=229) claims his range goes from deep baritone to high alto, but I’ve heard him live and I’d say it also includes throat singing and falsetto. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/37 "2012-10-30T21:11:03Z")
If we’re talking range, then Elvis is in there. His voice was almost unnatural in the range it could produce. Could see him doing opera with training (in fact on It’s Now or Never he sang at the same pitch of O sole mio). ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/38 "2012-10-30T21:15:52Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > That’s true. The only one I can think of is Carmina Burana, and that’s not even an opera. I’d argue that the tenor in _Carmina Burana_ should really be a tenor and not a countertenor; it’s _supposed_ to be too high to sing comfortably (interestingly, the baritone in _Carmina Burana_ has to sing a pianissimo high B). As far as operatic countertenors go, you mostly have to go either baroque or ultra modern. The last one I heard was the White Rabbit in Unsuk Chin’s _Alice in Wonderland_, which made its American debut here in St. Louis last summer. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/39 "2012-10-30T21:35:28Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > Some possibilities\*: > > [Mariah Carey](http://therangeplace.forummotions.com/t124-mariah-carey): Mezzo-Soprano, vocal range G#2-A5(-F6) (C8). > [Phil Anselmo](http://therangeplace.forummotions.com/t65-phil-anselmo?highlight=anselmo): Baritone, vocal range F♯1-A5 > [Chris Cornell](http://therangeplace.forummotions.com/t168-chris-cornell?highlight=cornell): High baritone, vocal range B1-B5 > [Axl Rose](http://therangeplace.forummotions.com/t39-axl-rose): Low baritone, vocal range C♯1-C♯7 > > - All vocal ranges are based on the best analysis of The Range Place 2.0 forum members. **They may or may not correspond to what a professional voice coach would determine.** (Bolding mine) Almost certainly not. Leaving Mariah Carey aside, they are frankly ridiculous. I do not believe that, for instance, Axl Rose ever produced either a C#1 or a C#7 using any technique that could properly be called “singing”. Don’t overestimate the importance of range in singing opera. It’s nice, certainly, but most opera singers (especially men) have perfectly decent careers with two or two and a half octaves. They might be able to vocalize over three octaves or so, but would mostly never sing at the extremes. > [@Lochdale](#): > > If we’re talking range, then Elvis is in there. His voice was almost unnatural in the range it could produce. Could see him doing opera with training (in fact on It’s Now or Never he sang at the same pitch of O sole mio). Re range, see above. As to your parenthetical, I have no idea what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304/40 "2012-10-30T22:01:57Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > (Bolding mine) Almost certainly not. Leaving Mariah Carey aside, they are frankly ridiculous. I do not believe that, for instance, Axl Rose ever produced either a C#1 or a C#7 using any technique that could properly be called “singing”. Axl’s highest notes are considered “non-modal”, ie not in full voice, by the people at The Range Place 2.0. Nevertheless, he produced the sound, and with training could probably do better. For his range in more detail, [check out this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3zUkRb9CSU) – the C#7 can be heard at 11:12. On the low end, he hits vocal fry at 00:34 with a B1. He sang in the church choir as a boy, which seems to have been the extent of his vocal training – in _The Dirt_, Vince Neil from Motley Crue claims he taught Axl some vocal techniques, and Vince Neil ain’t exactly, uh, a great singer. It seems like Axl was born with a lot of raw talent that wasn’t developed (and, alas, is likely squandered for good by this point). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-some-popular-singers-have-made-it-as-opera-singers-given-the-training/639304.md?page=3)