Could some popular singers have made it as opera singers, given the training?

Sure, but it’s extremely difficult. It’s much easier to go the other direction. The training isn’t the same. Pop singers never need to do the things that opera singers have to learn. A simple example: pop singers get a microphone, even in a small venue.

I note that you mention Mariah Carey in the OP. Opera singers actually talk about how damaged her voice is, based on the way she produces those really high notes. The real flageolet register, what is commonly called whistle tone, is still rather loud and full sounding. Her version is more like a pinched off variety, and is actually a common malfunction in sopranos who strain too hard and cause damage to their chords.

I once decided to download a guide for pop musicians and compared it to how I was classically trained. The one thing that really stood out for me is how you are told to rarely use your voice for anything other than singing. You have to have complete vocal rest for 24 hours before and after a performance, and never to sing except when performing. Doing otherwise could damage your voice. This is the complete opposite of classical training, where I was taught that, if you can’t sing for hours at a time without losing your voice, you’re doing something wrong.

You can think of pop singers as the sprinters to the opera singer’s marathoners.

In a similar vein, here is a interesting blog article where a professional voice teacher listens to and comments on some of the classic male metal vocalists:
http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2010/07/ask-a-real-musician-5-classic-male-metal-singers/

It would be stretching the meaning of the word “popular”, but there are several northern European metal vocalists that come from an opera background or have strong operatic (?) styling, but that is a singing approach that suits that genre and not more common pop music.

According to The Range Place 2.0, Elvis’ range was B♭1-F♯5. I think it’s interesting that Alice Cooper has a similar range – C♯2-F♯5. Elvis sounds much more powerful than Cooper, though. Glenn Danzig often sounds like a mix between Elvis and Jim Morrison, but more like Morrison, I think.

Two singers who can sound a lot alike are Jonathan Davis of Korn and Marilyn Manson, particularly when Davis uses his lower range. I’m a huge Manson fan, and sometimes Davis’ voice sounds indistinguishable from Manson’s. Manson can’t go anywhere near as high as Davis though. Although I think both Davis and Manson have voices that are perfect for the genre of music they are into, I don’t think either one could be trained to operatic quality.

My point is that “producing the sound” is not the same as “singing”. Sure, he fried out a B1, but that’s not the same as singing it (also, B1 isn’t that impressive. I’ve sung a B1 and nobody had accused me of being a bass. It’s a far cry from C#1, which that video does a very poor job of demonstrating). And I’m afraid that I don’t hear any variety of C# at 11:12. Assuming that that is human utterance (and I would’t call it singing) it seems to be a B-flat rising to an A-flat.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Axl Rose. But his ability to scream out high notes and fry out low notes is not in any way related to any potential in opera.

Siouxsie Sioux. (of “and the Banshees” fame)

You’re missing my point a bit. I wasn’t asking if, say, Axl could start a whole new opera career at 50. The odds are against him. I’m asking, with what evidence we have of their vocal talents, if they had chosen an opera career, could they have made it? I think if Axl had gotten obsessed with opera at, like, age 13 and was trained, I think he would’ve stood a decent chance.

Sarah Vaughan.

I once worked with a pianist who had worked with her for a while (and had clearly come down in the world to be working with me!). He had a lot of interesting things to say about her, but the one that I will repeat is that she had both the chest notes and the head voice to do opera if she had trained that way. I don’t know if he was an expert in that area, frankly, but from listening to her recordings, I can believe it.
Roddy

First of all, I’m responding to a specific point in your OP, where you said “[these ranges] may or may not correspond to what a professional voice coach would determine.” I am saying they are not (It’s probably worth pointing out that I am, in fact, a professional voice coach).

Further, what I am saying is that vocal range, specifically, is not evidence either way of whether a given singer could have potential in opera. Perhaps Axl could have had an operatic career. I don’t know. I do know that the range that he has exhibited, especially in the manner that he exhibited it, doesn’t play into it.

Well, he’s certainly growing a nice rack on him from the looks of this picture. He might fill out one of those cone bra costumes yet!

Joking aside, I throw my vote in for Mariah Carey.

I saw Kristin Chenoweth sing opera (on TV) in Mozart’s The Magic Flute. I couldn’t find any video of it on-line, but here’s a sample of her singing the aria, Der Hölle Rache on her short-lived sitcom: YouTube.

Linda Ronstadt has sung (light) opera, most famously as the character, Mabel, in 1980 in a NY Shakespeare Festival-production of Gilbert & Sullivan’s The Pirates of Penzance (reviews: Pirates of Penzance), and in the filmed adaptation released in 1983: The Pirates of Penzance (1983) - IMDb.

IMO, I think Ronnie James Dio could have sung opera, and with little training. I had the great pleasure of seeing him perform at a small club and was dumbfounded by how good his range was and by how long he could sustain notes. I mean, I knew the guy could sing, but the metal work he did on vinyl never showcased just how much of a pure instrument his voice was. RIP, RJD.

You’ve got to be kidding me. I’m a huge fan, but even so.

I forgot about two with incredible range and power: Kim Carpenter and Annie Lennox.

He still has it, too.

It is easier to tell with singers who do folk, jazz or musical theatre whether or not they’d do well in opera. I don’t care about a singer’s range for opera, I care about the beauty of their tone. When a singer is deliberately emphasizing the rough edginess of their sound, it’s very difficult to say what the ‘naked’ sound of their instrument would be.

As to the singers you list as possibilities, I can’t tell. Like a classical singer, they are all capable of singing the words with expression, in time and in tune. Again, in my opinion - the main differences between pop/rock/folk styles of singing and classical singing are

  • the ability to project the voice to fill a hall over a piano, a chamber ensemble, a choir or an orchestra without amplification.
  • the ability to sing with an even tone quality throughout the register.
  • the ability to sing long phrases with an even breath.
  • the ability to have independent control of dynamics, pitch, tone quality and rhythm. In other words, can you sing that note fortissimo? Can you sing it pianissimo? Can you do a crescendo over this phrase without speeding up, and without changing the shape of the vowel you are singing?

Have a listen to these two YouTube vids -

Pavarotti/Sting “Panis Angelicus
Pavarotti/Bono “Ave Maria”, taken from the Schubert lied.

Now, I don’t want to make Sting or Bono look bad - they chose their own way to sing these two pieces, and these two easy classical songs are in a style that Pavarotti is utterly familiar with. I just want to point out a couple of things.

Listen to how often Bono has to breathe, breaking up the phrase (A— [breathe] ve Ma-ri-- [breathe] i-a); listen for how Pavarotti sings the whole phrase (A----ve Ma-ri-----a).

Listen to how Pavarotti sustains a note with the same tone quality at the beginning and at the end.

Look at the tension in Sting’s upper body, neck and face - he is not at all comfortable, in fact he’s really working. What’s up with the reverb in Sting’s second verse? Was that the sound man’s way of helping him look good even though his stamina was starting to give out? Whereas Pavarotti’s technique makes the song seem effortless. For him, it probably was.

That’s just a quick illustration of the difference between a classical singer’s technique and a rock singer’s technique.
I wouldn’t get so hung up on range. I can think of at least four examples off the top of my head where the same Opera/Operetta role can be sung by more than one voice type -

Rosina in ‘Il Barbiere di Siviglia’ by Rossini - she can be sung by a mezzo or a soprano. The aria is transposed up a half-step, from E Major to F Major. The choice depends on whether the conductor/director wants to emphasize her young innocence (Soprano) or her scheming duplicity (Mezzo)

Wozzeck in ‘Wozzeck’ by Berg - he can be a Bass (Walter Berry was stunning in the role), a Bass-Baritone (Franz Grundheber) or a Baritone (Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau sang the first recording and it was a fantastic role for him.) Conductors and directors make this decision based partly on the sound quality they want and the acting abilities of the singers available.

Pelléas in ‘Pelléas et Mélisande’ by Debussy - is he a tenor with low notes or a baritone with high notes? My personal preference is for the Baritone - it’s more exciting to hear someone at the peak of their register in the duet with Mélisande. The downside is that it’s a few weeks of anxiety for the baritone; he has to be in the peak of condition.

Eisenstein in ‘Die Fledermaus’ by Johann Strauss - again, tenor or baritone? In this particular case, it affects the casting for Falke and Frank. If Eisenstein is a tenor, Falke can be a high baritone and Frank can be a baritone. If Eisenstein is a high baritone, Falke has to be a lower baritone and Frank ought to be a bass, which makes for a challenging evening for Frank.
One of these days, fachverwirrt, we ought to sit down and figure out what roles we have in common.

Thank you for that excellent, educational post, Le Ministre.

I should have mentioned these two fellows -
Richard Margison
from his bio -

Theodore Baerg, who also started out sing 60s folk music in coffee shops (though he doesn’t mention it in this bio).

I blush; many thanks for your kind words!

Barbara Cook. And her singing in *Candide *was fairly operatic.

Rhiannon Giddens

She’s now singing & playing fiddle for the Carolina Chocolate Drops. Who play a wide variety of music–not exactly rock & roll, but* definitely* not opera…

I don’t want to step on the musical professional toes, but I had a couple if years of classical training. They began when I was an adult and embarrassed about not being able to sing “Happy Birthday” in tune.

Now, Axl Rose’s voice is great for what he does, but in operatic works, it would be ugly. From my understanding, all practice and training aside, if your vocal sound is ugly, you are largely stuck with it. It is something about the way sinuses are formed. Improvements may be possible, but not to the extent that would make one an operatic success.

I have a very lovely voice…when doing certain exercises that make breath control unneeded and hitting a pitch easy. That is to say: not when actually singing a song. I believe that things like that can be remedied by training. There are so many things to piece together that I just don’t think you can extrapolate much from pop music.

That said, from the Pavarotti and Friends YouTube videos, Liza Manelli is the one person that he didn’t blow off the stage. Check them out doing “New York, New York”.

Well, my resume’s pretty slim. I spent many years just teaching and not doing much singing. It’s really only the last couple of years that I’ve been singing again–and I just started with a new teacher who is completely deconstructing and reconstructing my voice (a process that is both frustrating and revelatory).

I know we’ve both recently done the Lakai. I’m sure there are a couple others.