# Could someone catch me up on the DC Universe? (Spoilers appreciated) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925 "2005-12-16T15:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/21 "2005-12-16T19:10:47Z")
So is this series going to lead to a true reboot or a return to the multiverse? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/22 "2005-12-16T19:38:30Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I read somewhere he kicked the shit out of the current Robin (Tim Drake?) wearing Earth-2 Robin’s uniform, making some speculate he’s Jason Todd from another Earth. Is this true? The only difference between the costume Jason wore when kicking the crap out of Tim and the one he wore as Robin is that he’s wearing yellow tights. Which does mean that it bears a vague resemblance to Earth-2 Robin’s costume (or, rather, as I look for a picture to use for comparison, one of Robin-2’s costumes - it bears even less resemblance to the other two), but only a very vague one. And speculating that it’s a different Jason ignores the fact that he knows about the real Jason, and has always identified himself with him. In his fight with Tim, for instance, they end up in the room with the statues of dead Titans, and he complains that there’s no statue of him. ‘I was a Titan too!’ There’s no good reason to believe this is another universe’s Jason Todd, rather than Jason back from the dead. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/23 "2005-12-16T19:59:08Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > So is this series going to lead to a true reboot or a return to the multiverse? True reboot, no. In a few months, every title (well, all those that take place in the current-day DCU, Jonah Hex is safe) is going to jump ahead “One Year Later” in continuity. The last few issues of the Infinite Crisis miniseries, as well as an upcoming weekly series called 52 will fill us in on what happened during the missing year. DC’s still playing their cards close to their chest regarding what the new universe will look like. Some big name books with heroes thought likely to croak in the Crisis (Flash, Wonder Woman) are being cancelled and it’s not yet clear if and when they’ll be brought back and who will be wearing the costume if they do. Hell, they’ve been careful no to say if Batman is still Bruce Wayne. Other books are being retitled and given new leads (Hawkman will soon become Hawkgirl, Aquaman will soon become Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis). And some new heroes are popping up (Blue Beetle). But what we do know makes it clear that things won’t be started over again, and that continuity from before Infinite Crisis carries over at least mostly intact. As for the multiverse, we don’t know yet. I know at least one character from an alternate Earth survives the coming Crisis But Power Girl is a special case, since she already survived the first Crisis intact ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/24 "2005-12-16T19:59:38Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > The sequence numbering is enough. It seems up to me that if the writers went and said “This Batman started in the sixties. He has never shot anyone. All his first few adventures were the same., save for the not shooting part, and the dates.” But it isn’t, as there is some alternating between Earth-One and Earth-Two in the Bat titles for about a year. Just because something appeared in the previous issue doesn’t mean it’s in continuity in the universe of the next one. It’s likely, but not a foregone conclusion. > [@](#): > > Would you rather have 3 guys, one who started in the thirties, shot people then never did again and was not part of Hypertime, somehow, another who started in the 30, never shot people, and the third one being Earth-One? > > Crazy. Last time I looked, if there is continuity from nearly 70 years ago, it is not up to me to prove that what happened, happened. It did. 2 shot people, moved on with his life. It’s not a matter of what I want. You’re taking as a given, proven fact something that is, though highly likely, not 100% guaranteed. And if you want BBVL (frex) to accept that he is “wrong” then it’s up to you to prove the correlation beyond a shadow of his doubt. > [@](#): > > Now, I am not asking for a Batman to show up and start shooting people right and left. Nor am I even asking for there to be a visual or verbal reference to his early years. Instead, I am simply expressing that I will bug-out if the Earth-Two Bats has a line like “No, I have never shot anyone, self-defense or not.” There’ve been worse retcons. BBVL has a very valid point that the Batman-2 of the post War era seems to be a radically different person than the original, in terms of personality. One more thing : It’s not a matter of right or wrong when you’re talking about a fictional universe where history gets rewritten on a weekly basis. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/25 "2005-12-16T20:01:25Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > There’s no good reason to believe this is another universe’s Jason Todd, rather than Jason back from the dead. Batman also dug up Jason’s coffin and found it empty, and, in fact, found no evidence that Jason was ever in it. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/26 "2005-12-16T20:10:33Z")
That, too. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/27 "2005-12-17T01:12:52Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > This is why I don’t visit conventions at all, as a rule. I thought [this](http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp12272001.shtml) was the reason. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/28 "2005-12-17T01:34:45Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > There’s no good reason to believe this is another universe’s Jason Todd, rather than Jason back from the dead. Ya know, I’ve heard rumors about entire genres of fiction where an argument like this just wouldn’t make sense. I loves me the comic books. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/29 "2005-12-17T02:30:25Z")
You know you’ve been reading Superhero comics too long when you have to have the fact a statement like that is a little strange pointed out to you… :eek: :o 😛😃 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/30 "2005-12-17T03:57:56Z")
I have to admit: thi sis why I don’t like DC. In Marvel, there’s not nearly so much fiddling with continuity. Sometimes they retcon things, but they don’t dump their heroes into a limbo of 50 sometimes-alternate, somtimes-identical versions. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/31 "2005-12-17T04:19:06Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > I have to admit: thi sis why I don’t like DC. > > In Marvel, there’s not nearly so much fiddling with continuity. Sometimes they retcon things, but they don’t dump their heroes into a limbo of 50 sometimes-alternate, somtimes-identical versions. Um, except when they do. They’ve got quite a collection of alternate earths and possible futures themselves. There’s at least 616 of them, IIRC. And then there’s the Ultimates line… Yeah. That might have been true back in the 1970’s, but now Marvel’s worse than DC, if anything. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/32 "2005-12-17T21:21:28Z")
… at least DC hasn’t come up with “Zombie Crisis.” Yet. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/33 "2005-12-18T01:02:04Z")
Hey, I LIKE Marvel Zombies! It’s funny and has great writing! It feeds my brain! ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/34 "2005-12-18T01:04:23Z")
Marvel Zombies is bloody great. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/35 "2005-12-18T04:39:43Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Um, except when they do. They’ve got quite a collection of alternate earths and possible futures themselves. There’s at least 616 of them, IIRC. Yeah, but the alternate timelines usually aren’t fighting each other for canon supremacy. And they didn’t have to cobble together the main Earth-616 from the decades of backstory making up Earths “6,” “A,” and “227.” ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/36 "2005-12-18T18:02:07Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Ya know, I’ve heard rumors about entire genres of fiction where an argument like this just wouldn’t make sense. > > I loves me the comic books. 😃 Nice! Sadly, when I read **Tengu’s** post, instead of thinking how silly the concept was, I thought to myself, “Tengu makes an interesting argument!” ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/37 "2005-12-18T22:07:34Z")
Marvel’s retcons are in many ways worse than DC continuity gaps. DC sort of makes sense to some degree. Marvel’s retcons, on the other hand, are often born of them cosntantly switching out writers who could care less what previous writers thought or intended. I mean, look at Magneto. This core X-Man villian has been so inconsistent as a character, has gone from a simple backstory to one that’s insanely confusing and still unresolved, with lots of bizarre elements that were introduced and then dropped unexplained. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/38 "2005-12-18T22:21:57Z")
If the recent insanity at DC has taught me anything, it’s that my onetime idea of a horrible horror revision of the X-Men that’d destroy everything X-Fans love really _would_ be a bad idea not only financially, but artistically. Well-written? Compared to what, ramen soup preparation instructions? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925/39 "2005-12-19T15:41:56Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Yeah, but the alternate timelines usually aren’t fighting each other for canon supremacy. And they didn’t have to cobble together the main Earth-616 from the decades of backstory making up Earths “6,” “A,” and “227.” To be fair, it’s not like Marvel had the decades of backstory that DC did. DC had “continuity drift” to explain, and came up with a novel way to explain it. As to fighting each other for canon supremacy… Age of Apocalypse - Nate Grey and Holocaust hung around, and the alternate Hank McCoy even replaced ours for awhile; House of M - I’m not reading it, but it’s being used to justify a number of little changes. And of course, there’s Exiles, one of Marvel’s best series. And the New Universe, which had a few interactions with the mainstream Marvel U. And the ever-shifting Marvel “Future” continuity. And the Squadron Supreme. And so on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-catch-me-up-on-the-dc-universe-spoilers-appreciated/335925.md?page=1)