# Could someone explain the whole thing about ZPG Zealot? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731 "2012-01-16T21:24:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/181 "2012-01-18T19:04:44Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > There is a responsibility on the woman not to continue a pregnancy when the father is unequivocally against it. You are just making this up as you go along, right? ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/182 "2012-01-18T19:05:41Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > There is a responsibility on the woman not to continue a pregnancy when the father is unequivocally against it. A man can’t force a woman to continue gestating a pregnancy she doesn’t want. She shouldn’t be able to force him to support a kid he didn’t want. Spoken like a woman who has never had to consider this. Also, unless they start making men with uteruses, there is no ideal solution to the problem. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/183 "2012-01-18T19:08:15Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > “Some sort of fosterage”? Like _adoption_, perhaps?. People raise children without changing their names and lying about the childrens’ parents and origins all the time. My family does it often enough, but we don’t lie about family relationships that don’t exist. Adoption involved considerably more legal lying than ever goes on in a fortune telling establishment. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/184 "2012-01-18T19:09:04Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > People raise children without changing their names and lying about the childrens’ parents and origins all the time. Yes. It is called adoption. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/185 "2012-01-18T19:13:45Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Yes. It is called adoption. Exactly. ZPGZealot: every time you post, you’re proving that just because someone’s has a brain, that does not make them smart. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/186 "2012-01-18T19:15:25Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > People raise children without changing their names and lying about the childrens’ parents and origins all the time. My family does it often enough, but we don’t lie about family relationships that don’t exist. Adoption involved considerably more legal lying than ever goes on in a fortune telling establishment. You really need to hang out with a better class of people. My kids know exactly what happened, who their parents are, where they are from, how it differs from their peers, etc. We actually talk about it as we would any other topic. The only lies we tell are about Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy (and I feel guilty even about that). We did change their names, though. Cause the people who were trying to hurt them were looking for them so they could continue to harm them. (I suspect I am going to continue to be ignored.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/187 "2012-01-18T19:23:24Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > (I suspect I am going to continue to be ignored.) Even if she responds to you, it’s not going to change her mind. At best she’ll say you’re an exception and continue to blather about how you’re lying to a 4-year-old if you decide he’s not emotionally mature enough to handle the complexities of knowing he’s adopted and don’t actively remind him at every opportunity that he’s not biologically related to you, since that’s the most important thing in the ZPG-verse. ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/188 "2012-01-18T19:25:34Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > **Your** confusing Roma with Traveler. My what, library girl? But actually, no. I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/189 "2012-01-18T19:44:08Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > People raise children without changing their names and lying about the childrens’ parents and origins all the time. My family does it often enough, but we don’t lie about family relationships that don’t exist. Adoption involved considerably more legal lying than ever goes on in a fortune telling establishment. I was adopted (raised by my bio-mom and her 2nd husband) but never lied to about it. I remember the whole thing quite clearly and was there at their wedding. What lies are you imagining were told? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/190 "2012-01-18T20:05:41Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I was adopted (raised by my bio-mom and her 2nd husband) but never lied to about it. I remember the whole thing quite clearly and was there at their wedding. What lies are you imagining were told? She believes that it’s wrong to force adopted kids to call their adoptive parents “Mom” and “Dad” because she considers that to be a lie. They should call them “Guardian” or Mr. Jones or something along those lines, according to her. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/191 "2012-01-18T20:08:46Z")
> [@ReticulatingSplines](#): > > [Travis Henry](http://www.aolnews.com/2009/03/12/after-birth-of-twins-travis-henry-now-has-11-kids-by-10-women/). The ironic thing is that when Travis Henry was a running back for the Bills, he could never hit the hole. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/192 "2012-01-18T20:56:21Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah and we have science that has given us a victory over biology and we can have abortions so while can still get accidentally pregnant, we no longer accidently give birth to any great degree. We give women a choice at leasst in part so that we do not derail her life. We do nto afford men that same choice. No, dummy, _biology_ hasn’t given men the same choice. A man is as free as any woman to abort any fetus he gestates. He is not free to tell another person what they must do with their own body; whether to gestate or abort. And both parents owe support to a child once it’s born. (unless the baby is _adopted_, but of course, that is a horror unto itself!) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/193 "2012-01-18T21:20:47Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > People raise children without changing their names and lying about the childrens’ parents and origins all the time. My family does it often enough, but we don’t lie about family relationships that don’t exist. Adoption involved considerably more legal lying than ever goes on in a fortune telling establishment. Parents withhold information as appropriate from their children all the time. My (biological) children do not know the circumstances of their conception and gestation, for example (where, when, planned, accident, medical complications whatever). If relevant, as they get older, we will tell them info. I personally agree that adopted kids should know they are adopted and have access to medical info, at least. I think parents who never tell their children are making a mistake. HOwever, that is a mistake a person makes implementing adoption. It does not make adoption a mistake. I have read before that you believe even changing an adopted child’s name to adopted parents’ name and having the child call the adopted parents “mom and dad” is a form of lying. The purpose of adoption is to bring the child into the family as a full-fledged member of the family with no distinction from bio children. If you do not want to make that specific commitment to that child- do not adopt. But if you do, adoption is the mechanism for that act. And thus, changing the name and using the accepted terms for parents is appropriate to achieve that goal. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/194 "2012-01-18T21:55:43Z")
I actually agree with ZPGZealot in one thing - open adoptions. I don’t agree the kid shouldn’t be allowed to call his new family mom and dad if they want to, but it should not be kept a secret from the kid. Of course, I come from a very traumatic “discovery” background - where the finding out nearly destroyed my family, and if they had just told me, would it really have been a big deal? I wonder what ZPGZealot thinks of my situation. Would you like to answer that? I was born out of wedlock. My mother was young and my father, married to someone else, and he rejected me anyone once he found out I was a girl. I was raised by my aunt and uncle, and I was told to call them Mom and Dad. I don’t resent that part of it. My real mother never did a thing to warrant being called Mom - merely birthing a baby does not make you anything but a biological mother. You have to take care of the kid and not toss it aside. But I do resent not being told, since it set up a chain of events that could have otherwise been avoided. So? She could not get an abortion, not in 1970s India. Did my family do the right thing? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/195 "2012-01-18T22:07:20Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I actually agree with ZPGZealot in one thing - open adoptions. I don’t agree the kid shouldn’t be allowed to call his new family mom and dad if they want to, but it should not be kept a secret from the kid. She does go a wee bit further than that. ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/196 "2012-01-18T22:12:13Z")
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t open adoptions the rule rather than the exception these days? I think it’s pretty rare for a child not to know it’s adopted, and more often than not they know quite a bit about the bio family. I’m speaking of modern American society, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/197 "2012-01-18T22:16:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You are just making this up as you go along, right? Sadly no. You’ve crossed over into the ZPG Zone. A zone where forced abortion or infanticide is normal accepted behavior if the father doesn’t want the child his sperm created, but is a rapist every time he extends his hand to a woman to shake as surely as if he dropped trow and demanded she publically fellatiate him. A zone free from the tyranny of lies in adoption. Any adult calling adopted children ‘son’ or ‘daughter’ or the child using the words "mom’ or ‘dad’ will be publically flogged until they learn to use the terms unrelated guardian figure and unwanted child. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/198 "2012-01-18T22:19:04Z")
> [@PeskiPiksi](#): > > Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t open adoptions the rule rather than the exception these days? I think it’s pretty rare for a child not to know it’s adopted, and more often than not they know quite a bit about the bio family. > > I’m speaking of modern American society, of course. Pretty much if you don’t agree to some level of openess you are not getting a child through the public system (foster care) or through private adoption (typically birth mothers surrendering infants). Canadian but I think (hope) we’re pretty close. (Additionally, it would be impossible for my kids to now know they are adopted. They were 5 and 6 when they came to live with us.) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/199 "2012-01-18T22:20:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > She does go a wee bit further than that. What with the baby-murdering and all. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/200 "2012-01-18T22:29:48Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > What with the baby-murdering and all. I meant the part where the kids get constant reminders that they’re different and aren’t allowed to call the adoptive parents Mom and Dad, which would seem like emotional abuse to most people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731.md?page=11)