# Could someone explain the whole thing about ZPG Zealot? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731 "2012-01-16T21:24:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/61 "2012-01-17T01:10:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Uh-huh… what part of the “Roma experience” frowns on breastfeeding? For every quirk of ZPG’s you can attribute (however clumsily) to her Roma culture, she’s glad to broadcast one that is best attributed to general nuttiness. The one about not expressing bodily fluids (blood, urine, spit, breast milk, etc.) of any sort around a food or water source and that if you have to release said fluids you do so discretely and privately. Also, you wash yourself throughly after contact with said fluids or you are unclean. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/62 "2012-01-17T01:12:33Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If you don’t want to hear my opinions on breastfeeding, stop bringing them up. I wasn’t the one that started the discussion. I’m seeing a slight contradiction here. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/63 "2012-01-17T01:12:43Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Get _un_safe abortions, as they have for centuries in every culture on Earth where abortion is illegal or even just frowned upon? Infanticide has also been practiced for centuries in every culture on Earth where abortion is illegal or even just frowned upon. It’s usually safer from a health standpoint for the mother than an illegal abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/64 "2012-01-17T01:16:19Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If you don’t want to hear my opinions on breastfeeding, stop bringing them up. I wasn’t the one that started the discussion. As a woman who values herself as more than a milk producting machine (hey, my neighbors’ goats can do that), STFU about glorifing breastfeading as this holy grail of womanly behavior. There is nothing wrong with not wanting the experience either and the constant badgering of pro-breastfeeders is just another weapon used to keep women barefoot and in the kitchen. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting to breastfeed. One of the women I work with has an 11 month old and was able to breastfeed just fine while working and wearing shoes. (she said it really helped her take the weight off too, there are a ton of calories expended that way!) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/65 "2012-01-17T01:24:05Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The one about not expressing bodily fluids (blood, urine, spit, breast milk, etc.) of any sort around a food or water source and that if you have to release said fluids you do so discretely and privately. Also, you wash yourself throughly after contact with said fluids or you are unclean. So do Roma women breastfeed or not? You responded to my question without answering it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/66 "2012-01-17T01:26:27Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Why not? It’s simple honesty and if it prevents causing someone embarassment or worse great guilt for having violated their religious tenets common courtesy would be to disclose. It’s no different then when I have guests for dinner or bring food to a potluck at work, I am always careful to label dishes that contain pork, meat, gluten whatever, so that no one violates their food beliefs. Besides if adoption is nothing to be ashamed of why do you care who knows it? It’s nothing to be ashamed of, but publicising it may serve to attract the unpleasant attention of some adoption-fixated fucknut. Wearing your heart on your sleeve is good and great, unless there are people around who like stabbing hearts on sleeves - and as it turns out - there are. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/67 "2012-01-17T01:39:09Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If you don’t want to hear my opinions on breastfeeding, stop bringing them up. I wasn’t the one that started the discussion. As a woman who values herself as more than a milk producting machine (hey, my neighbors’ goats can do that), STFU about glorifing breastfeading as this holy grail of womanly behavior. There is nothing wrong with not wanting the experience either and the constant badgering of pro-breastfeeders is just another weapon used to keep women barefoot and in the kitchen. You don’t express opinions on breastfeeding. You promote ignorance. This paragraph is simply another demonstration of that fact. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/68 "2012-01-17T01:41:54Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If you don’t want to hear my opinions on breastfeeding, stop bringing them up. I wasn’t the one that started the discussion. As a woman who values herself as more than a milk producting machine (hey, my neighbors’ goats can do that), Only if they have given birth, unless I am much mistaken… ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/69 "2012-01-17T01:46:53Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I always see posters making passing references to **ZPG Zealot** being insane, backwards, possibly dangerous, and - it seems - part of some strange cult. > > Yet I have never actually seen any posts from this poster that suggest that - other than the latest suggestions of abolishing the family unit and raising all children in group homes. > > What’s the deal with **ZPG Zealot?** How oddly we move through the Dope. I read a hundred times more than I post and like AT, have read countless ZPG posts but never noticed evidence the crazy. A few days ago I’d never seen/read anything by **Gagundathar** despite a heavy post-count for the time. Yet all of a sudden he’s showing up in all sorts of threads. It’s interesting when our obliviousness hits us on the nose. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/70 "2012-01-17T01:48:09Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > It’s nothing to be ashamed of, but publicising it may serve to attract the unpleasant attention of some adoption-fixated fucknut. Wearing your heart on your sleeve is good and great, unless there are people around who like stabbing hearts on sleeves - and as it turns out - there are. I think ZPG simply has a language difficulty and doesn’t realize that in English the words “parent,” “mother,” “father,” etc. often refer to the persons who raise and care for a child, regardless of any biological relationship that may or may not exist. We discussed this topic here [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12249166&postcount=135](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12249166&postcount=135) a while back. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/71 "2012-01-17T01:51:51Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I think ZPG simply has a language difficulty and doesn’t realize that in English the words “parent,” “mother,” “father,” etc. often refer to the persons who raise and care for a child, regardless of any biological relationship that may or may not exist. We discussed this topic here [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12249166&postcount=135](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12249166&postcount=135) a while back. Kind of you to give her the benefit of the doubt, but no, she understands that perfectly well, I assure you. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/72 "2012-01-17T01:53:08Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Some people get hostile when they can’t impose their beliefs on others. I’m proud of my Roma heritage and I don’t compromise my values for anyone. I am anti-adoption, pro-family, and I believe population countrol is the best way to create stable societies. _:::scratches head:::_ So, if a child’s family are all deceased you are opposed to having that child adopted by someone? I don’t understand. You seriously think orphans should be abandoned entirely? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/73 "2012-01-17T02:19:31Z")
Wow, this is some weapons-grade crazy. I am horrified and fascinated at once, and only slightly ashamed to confess I want to hear more of her ideas. Does she have a newsletter? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/74 "2012-01-17T02:19:40Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The one about not expressing bodily fluids (blood, urine, spit, breast milk, etc.) of any sort around a food or water source and that if you have to release said fluids you do so discretely and privately. Also, you wash yourself throughly after contact with said fluids or you are unclean. [Huh.](http://cultural.profiles.spirasi.ie/countries/roma.shtml) > [@](#): > > Women are particularly associated with marim, with any part of a woman’s body above the waist being wuzho or pure and below the woman’s waist being marim or polluted - especially the genitoanal area and its secretions. \*\*Secretions from the upper half of the body are not polluting or shameful. \*\* Also: > [@](#): > > There are rituals (that vary with tribe) involving the formal recognition of the infant by its father. In some cases, the child is wrapped in swaddling on which a few drops of paternal blood are placed. > … > Children are a major focus of Romani culture and are believed to bring good luck. Child rearing is the responsibility of everyone in the family. Due to the large and complex social structure, most of the children are raised and cared for my many different people including extended family members and clan members living in the same residential area. Granted this source may not be as authoritative as it appears to be, but I’m getting a much stronger vibe of credibility from it than from our erstwhile poster. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/75 "2012-01-17T02:22:40Z")
[Roma and breastfeeding](http://ling.uni-graz.at/~rombase/cgi-bin/art.cgi?src=data/ethn/belief/ladz.en.xml) > [@](#): > > In complete opposition to the conventions of non-Roma, many groups of Vlach-Roma did not consider the exposure of female breasts to be taboo. Romnja (Roma women) breastfed their babies wherever they were, even in the presence of men and non-Roma. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/76 "2012-01-17T02:24:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Women are particularly associated with marim, with any part of a woman’s body above the waist being wuzho or pure and below the woman’s waist being marim or polluted - especially the genitoanal area and its secretions And ZPG asserts that promoting and encouraging breastfeeding is misogynistic. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/77 "2012-01-17T02:33:30Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > As has been stated upstream, leaving unwanted infants to be ‘taken by the gods’ was a common practice in many cultures. I don’t need a cite. Just Google it. > Surely you’ll all know this happened. Why yes, I do. > [@](#): > > After all, when was the last time y’all saw a hill with a baby on it so that the birds and other animals could pull it apart and eat it? > > That is what several human cultures have done in the past. > > Feel good about yourselves, collectively, that we don’t do so today. Thank you for your kind permission. I do. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/78 "2012-01-17T02:35:33Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > _:::scratches head:::_… I don’t understand. You seriously think orphans should be abandoned entirely? Of course not. They would stand around crying and annoying the grownups. They should be killed. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/79 "2012-01-17T02:54:13Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Infanticide has also been practiced for centuries in every culture on Earth where abortion is illegal or even just frowned upon. It’s usually safer from a health standpoint for the mother than an illegal abortion. It’s usually unsafe, from a health standpoint, for the child being murdered, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731/80 "2012-01-17T02:57:48Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > What’s the deal with **ZPG Zealot?** Question answered yet, AT? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-the-whole-thing-about-zpg-zealot/609731.md?page=5)