# Could someone explain Unconditional Election to me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 20, 2007, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-unconditional-election-to-me/419835 "2007-09-20T03:46:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-unconditional-election-to-me/419835/1 "2007-09-20T03:46:59Z")
One of the doctrines of Calvinism that has always intrigued me is that of [“unconditional election”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_election). I would define it here, but I don’t really understand it, and the Wikipedia article isn’t making it any clearer. My original interpretation of unconditional election was that some people are the “elect,” and are thus saved, and everyone else is, well, screwed. Furthermore, there was nothing someone could do to change their status of being one of the elect. Thus, it was “random” (not really, since it’s God’s will, but from the perspective of us, random nonetheless) whether or not you could be saved. This seems to indicate one of two things: 1. Calvinists believed they were unconditionally elected, and there was no way anyone else could be saved; or 2. Some Calvinists aren’t part of the elect, and won’t be saved, and furthermore some non-Calvinists would be saved, regardless of whether they believed in any Calvinist teachings. But reading the Wikipedia article began to give me some doubts about this. Specifically, there’s now a third interpretation running through my head: 1. If you were saved, it is due purely to God’s will, and not because of any actions you took. This is in contrast to “conditional election,” where your saving may be a result of your actions (or rather, God’s foreknowledge of your actions). This winds up seeming like a much more minor point than I originally thought: people get saved or don’t, but the underlying reason for it is either God’s will, or God’s foreknowledge. So, which of these interpretations are correct? Is there a fourth one that is more correct? I’m basically just really confused. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-unconditional-election-to-me/419835/2 "2007-09-20T19:38:07Z")
One-time bump… ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-unconditional-election-to-me/419835/3 "2007-09-20T20:09:12Z")
Oh, those whacky, whacky Calvinists! Reading this article actually made me shudder in horror: > **[Calvinism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_points_of_Calvinism)** > > Christianity • Protestantism > Calvinism, also called Reformed Christianity,\[a\] is a major branch of Protestantism that follows the theological tradition and forms of Christian practice set down by John Calvin and various other Reformation-era theologians. It emphasizes the sovereignty of God and the authority of the Bible. > Calvinists broke from the Roman Catholic Church in the 16th century. Calvinists differ from Lutherans, another major branch of the Reformation, on the spiritual real presen... ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-unconditional-election-to-me/419835/4 "2007-09-20T20:59:22Z")
In a nutshell, you pretty much have it. “Election” refers to the fact that God has chosen – predestined, if you will – who will be saved and who will not be. “Unconditional” means that whether or not you are one of the elect has absolutely nothing to do with your own will or actions – nothing you can do can possibly influence whether or not you are one of the elect (due to your Total Depravity). However, I think you are on the wrong track in your second point above. If God has elected you, there is this thing called Irresistible Grace. You can’t be one of the Elect and not be a Christian (don’t know if you would necessarily be Calvinist); you can’t help it. Similarly, if you are a sincere Christian, it’s because God has chosen you to be one – you have responded to his Irresistible Grace. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-unconditional-election-to-me/419835/5 "2007-09-20T21:16:30Z")
So would it make sense to say that Unconditional Election and Conditional Election are sort of inverses of each other? In the former, you’re a good Christian because God chose you, in the latter, God chose you because you’re a good Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-unconditional-election-to-me/419835/6 "2007-09-20T21:27:21Z")
Yes, basically with Conditional Election you have the idea that God chooses those who are saved based how they respond to Him by their own free will. This also creates problems with the Calvinist teaching of Total Depravity, which asserts that the human will is completely corrupted by sin, so that not the slightest move toward God is possible apart from God’s grace. ETA: I should add a disclaimer that I do not consider myself a Calvinist, so there may be one stopping by any minute to correct my heretical interpretation 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-unconditional-election-to-me/419835/7 "2007-09-21T03:33:38Z")
[The Calvinists (presumably) call Antinomianism a heresy. I call it a damn good time](http://rotten.com/library/religion/heresy/antinomianism/): > [@](#): > > Perhaps the greatest heresy of all time, Antinomianism preaches that souls are saved only by God’s grace… and so there’s absolutely no reason to refrain from every imaginable vice and sin. > > In other words, par-TAY!!! > > Antinomianism was around for a long time before someone came up with the word. Many gnostic sects of early Christianity staked out positions on one or the other extreme pole of behavior. Either they believed in asceticism, the denial of all fleshly pleasures, or utter licentiousness, in which sex, gluttony and all manner of dissolute behavior were not only permitted but encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-unconditional-election-to-me/419835/8 "2007-09-21T16:20:47Z")
When I read the works of Bill Watterson, Calvinism began to make a lot of sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-someone-explain-unconditional-election-to-me/419835/9 "2007-09-21T16:59:53Z")
You’ve left out the other fun bits, like “total depravity”! [The Five Points of Calvinism, TULIP](http://www.mslick.com/tulip.htm) **T** otal Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) **U** nconditional Election **L** imited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) **I** rresistible Grace **P** erseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved) We’ve had some lively discussions about **TULIP** and Calvinism in GD. Search using “Calvinism” as your guide, if you’re so inclined.