# Could the British monarch be a US citizen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 18, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277 "2012-02-18T22:09:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/41 "2012-02-20T01:04:25Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Wouldn’t that rule out everyone who would have dual citizenship by birth? I should hope not! I was born in the US of a Canadian mother, and a US father. By Canadian law, I’m a Canadian citizen, due to being born of a citizen of Canada, so my US citizenship status would be determined by Canada’s law, not by the law of my US father’s country and the law of my US birthplace. That wouldn’t make sense, as it lets other countries determine the US citizenship status of _anyone_, merely by making their law say that person is a citizen of their country. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/42 "2012-02-20T01:48:39Z")
A similar case came up in Canada during World War II, when the future Queen Juliana of the Netherlands was staying in Ottawa. While there, she gave birth to [Princess Margriet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Margriet_of_the_Netherlands#cite_ref-1). In order to avoid any question of Canadian citizenship for the baby, the Governor in Council issued a special proclamation declaring the hospital room to be extraterritorial during the birth. (In return for the hospitality of the Canadians, Queen Juliana instituted an annual gift of thousands and thousands of tulips for the City of Ottawa every year, leading to the May tulip festival in the capital.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/43 "2012-02-20T02:31:59Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > I should hope not! I was born in the US of a Canadian mother, and a US father. By Canadian law, I’m a Canadian citizen, due to being born of a citizen of Canada, so my US citizenship status would be determined by Canada’s law, not by the law of my US father’s country and the law of my US birthplace. That wouldn’t make sense, as it lets other countries determine the US citizenship status of _anyone_, merely by making their law say that person is a citizen of their country. I’m in exactly the same situation. What I wanted was for **KneeSid** to clarify his / her information, because as stated it’s clearly not true for just that reason. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/44 "2012-02-20T02:40:54Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I’m in exactly the same situation. What I wanted was for **KneeSid** to clarify his / her information, because as stated it’s clearly not true for just that reason. I quoted what the Supreme Court said in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14791180&postcount=40). The Supreme Court, in fact, said exactly the opposite. It said: 1. The phrase “unless they are subject to any foreign power” doesn’t mean what it sounds like it means. 2. In any case, the law that contained that phrase was overruled by the 14th Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/45 "2012-02-20T02:53:12Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > I quoted what the Supreme Court said in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14791180&postcount=40). The Supreme Court, in fact, said exactly the opposite. > > It said: > > 1. The phrase “unless they are subject to any foreign power” doesn’t mean what it sounds like it means. > 2. In any case, the law that contained that phrase was overruled by the 14th Amendment. Yes, I saw that; thanks. I don’t know if **Cheshire Human** saw it. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/46 "2012-02-20T03:01:21Z")
Wait a sec, though: Churchhill was a citizen by birth: his mother was American. he may not have claimed it, but he could have. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/47 "2012-02-20T03:22:29Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Wait a sec, though: Churchhill was a citizen by birth: his mother was American. he may not have claimed it, but he could have. Winston Churchill was born in 1874, so you need to apply U.S. citizenship law as it was at the time. At the time, citizenship to children born abroad only descended through the father: the fact that Jenny Churchill was a U.S. citizen was irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/48 "2012-02-20T03:38:11Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Winston Churchill was born in 1874, so you need to apply U.S. citizenship law as it was at the time. At the time, citizenship to children born abroad only descended through the father: the fact that Jenny Churchill was a U.S. citizen was irrelevant. Yes, in fact mothers could not pass citizenship to their foreign-born children until the Citizenship Act of 1934 became law. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/49 "2012-02-20T03:51:32Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > However, what happened when Grace Kelly became princess consort of Monaco? Did her joining a foreign royal family cause her to lose US citizenship? I don’t think so: the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Kelly) says: “She also retained her American roots, maintaining dual US and Monégasque citizenships.” If Her Serene Highness could do that, I don’t see why an American-born U.K. monarch could not as well. I thought Queen Noor (the queen dowager of Jordan) might be in a similar position, but she renounced her US citizenship upon marrying King Hussein. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/50 "2012-02-20T04:09:31Z")
While it may have changed since then, back in the early 2000s, I was exploring quite closely what I might do to lose my American citizenship. (To avoid doing such.) One of the factors that the State Department accepts as presumptive intention of renouncing U.S. citizenship is if one accepts a policy making position in a foreign government. (I could be an MP in Canada without losing citizenship; I would lose it should I join the Cabinet.) I would certainly expect that becoming the monarch of a foreign nation would qualify, and that while such a person as posited in the OP and the Thai king referenced above _may_ at one point have been U.S. citizens, on accepting the throne they would lose (have lost) that status. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/51 "2012-02-20T04:10:46Z")
> [@kurtisokc](#): > > Suppose Will gets Kate pregnant, and then they take a short trip to, say, Aspen. For purposes of the hypothetical, lets assume that it is a strictly private visit, and they are not there in any sort of official capacity. Lo and behold, the baby comes a little early, and they are suddenly the proud parents of a little prince who just happens to have been born in the United States. Lovely. The kid runs for the presidency and wins, Wills drops dead and the kid is president of the U.S. and king of Canada. Run away! Run away! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/52 "2012-02-20T05:04:20Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Yes, I saw that; thanks. I don’t know if **Cheshire Human** saw it. I saw it, too. I was quite aware that it wasn’t an issue. I was merely explaining why. I also wasn’t aware that you already knew why. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/53 "2012-04-04T13:04:20Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > While it may have changed since then, back in the early 2000s, I was exploring quite closely what I might do to lose my American citizenship. (To avoid doing such.)… The Perfect Master speaks: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/841/how-do-i-go-about-renouncing-my-u-s-citizenship](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/841/how-do-i-go-about-renouncing-my-u-s-citizenship) ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/54 "2012-04-04T19:17:28Z")
The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, chanced to have been born in New York City, where his mother was passing through at the time. When arriving in the US some years ago an immigration official told him he **had** to travel on a US passport whether he wanted to or not. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/55 "2012-04-05T02:26:42Z")
The third president of Ireland (and more or less the most important political figure in modern Irish history), Éamon de Valera, was also born in New York. According to the story that was accepted during his lifetime, he was the child of a mother who was an Irish citizen and her husband, an artist who was born in Spain (or maybe Cuba) and who died not too long after de Valera’s birth. It’s now suspected that his mother made up the marriage and the husband. She suppposedly became pregnant while single, so she told people back home that she had married a Spanish artist who died soon after the birth on a trip to somewhere in the western U.S.: > **[Éamon de Valera](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eamon_de_Valera)** > > Éamon de Valera\[a\]\[b\] (/ˈeɪmən ˌdɛvəˈlɛərə, -ˈlɪər-/, Irish: \[ˈeːmˠən̪ˠ dʲɛ ˈwalʲəɾʲə\]; first registered as George de Valero; changed some time before 1901 to Edward de Valera; 14 October 1882 – 29 August 1975) was an Irish statesman and political leader. He served several terms as head of government and head of state and had a leading role in introducing the 1937 Constitution of Ireland. > Prior to de Valera's political career, he was a commandant of Irish Volunteers at Boland's Mill during th... I’ve been trying to make up scenarios in which this could have screwed up de Valera’s presidency. Suppose after de Valera had become president, his real father had shown up and announced that he hadn’t given de Valera’s mother permission to send him back to Ireland. Because of this, de Valera was illegally in Ireland, and thus he never legally was an Irish citizen, and thus he wasn’t actually the president. O.K., I don’t know if this would have worked or not, since I don’t know the relevant laws. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/56 "2012-04-05T03:26:39Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Because of this, de Valera was illegally in Ireland, and thus he never legally was an Irish citizen, and thus he wasn’t actually the president. O.K., I don’t know if this would have worked or not, since I don’t know the relevant laws. It wouldn’t work. de Valera satisfied two criteria sufficient to become a citizen of the Irish Free State: he was resident in December 1922 and his mother was born in Ireland. Interestingly, de Valera was an elected (but abstentionist) Northern Ireland MP at the same time that he was head of the Free State government. This may be a historically unique case of a serving head of government being elected as a member of parliament in another jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/57 "2012-04-05T03:35:18Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > . . . I’ve been trying to make up scenarios in which this could have screwed up de Valera’s presidency. Suppose after de Valera had become president, his real father had shown up and announced that he hadn’t given de Valera’s mother permission to send him back to Ireland. Because of this, de Valera was illegally in Ireland, and thus he never legally was an Irish citizen, and thus he wasn’t actually the president. O.K., I don’t know if this would have worked or not, since I don’t know the relevant laws. Assuming de Valera was illegitimate, then he was a British subject (by descent from his mother) and had a right of entry into Ireland (which was part of the UK at the time he returned) and so was lawfully resident in what became the Free State in 1922. The Irish Free State Constitution conferred citizenship on anyone resident there in 1922 if (a) they were born there, or (b) they had a parent born there, or (c) they had been resident there for at least seven years. De Valera would have qualified under either (b) or (c), and so he acquired the citizenship of the Free State. Ironically, if we assume his mother’s story to be true, his situation is in theory more difficult. She would have lost her British subject status on marrying a foreign subject, so de Valera would not have been a British subject by birth. This meant that the British could have excluded him from the UK. But, in fact, they didn’t, so he entered the UK lawfully - at the time, you didn’t need an affirmative right to enter; if you weren’t turned away, then you were lawfully there. And since he was lawfully resident in what became the Free State in 1922, he became a citizen. Whether de Valera’s father consented to his being brought to Ireland would have no implications at all, regardless of whether his parents were married or not. In a family dispute unilaterally bringing a child into another country may be in breach of a court order, or of parental rights, but generally that has no implications for immigration status. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/58 "2012-04-05T17:53:43Z")
If 26 more states ratify [TONA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titles_of_Nobility_Amendment) and Congress does not give their approval then the answer to the OP is no. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/59 "2012-04-05T20:15:34Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Lovely. The kid runs for the presidency and wins, Wills drops dead and the kid is president of the U.S. and king of Canada. > > Run away! Run away! Maybe not: [QUOTE=U.S.Constitution Article I Section 9 Clause 8] No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State. [/QUOTE] This appears to forbid the POTUS from accepting the Kinsgship of Canada (or whatever you want to call it), at least without Congressional approval. Though maybe Congressional approval isn’t so far-fetched, if the now-at-least-35-years-old kid is such a great politician that he can get elected POTUS despite his immigrant roots. And the only way to enforce this is probably for Congress to impeach the kid, so he could be both POTUS and King until the impeachment trial is over. Now, if the kid becomes King first, and then runs for the presidency, he could argue he accepted the title before was holding an Office, and there’s nothing in the constitution about HOLDING a title while in office. ---
**Author:** ![allgoodguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@allgoodguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/allgoodguy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277/60 "2012-09-18T09:36:05Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Not necessarily. Given who his parents were, very likely they were in the US on diplomatic passports. Children of diplomats are _not_ automatically US citizens by birth. While it’s possible they were here under regular visas, that’s not the way I’d bet. I would reserve judgment until I see a cite that he was a US citizen. Actually, the Thai King’s father was only a prince who never held the office of king, and was in the US attending medical school at Harvard. It is likely he was actually on a student visa making the Thai King quite eligible to be a US citizen by birth. The fact he became king shouldn’t automatically remove his dual citizenship status, but I am no lawyer. It is a great question to me as this would make the Thai King eligible to become US president should he have ever lived in the US for the required time. Now, given the King may be a citizen of the US, does this mean the entire Thai Royal Family are now citizens by birth given they were all born to a likely US citizen? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-british-monarch-be-a-us-citizen/613277.md?page=4)