# Could the Dems win the white-working-class vote by getting more aggressively progressive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 9, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747 "2014-04-09T19:39:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/1 "2014-04-09T19:39:01Z")
That is the thesis of [this article](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/09/the_right%e2%80%99s_wobbly_electoral_lifeline_how_dems_can_win_back_white_working_class/). It seems to go against the conventional wisdom, but: > [@](#): > > As Thomas Edsall notes, the white working class is positively left-wing on many economic issues: > > > [@](#): > > > > There are a few — but very few — issues on which the white working class is more liberal than the general public, all of which capture the group’s bread-and-butter concerns: expansion of family, maternity and sick leave; a belief that “Wall Street hurts the American economy more than it helps”; and support for the protection of Medicare benefits. > > Most members of the white working class also support a higher minimum wage, Social Security and oppose “free trade” deals with mercantilist nations like South Korea and China that lead to the destruction or offshoring of U.S. manufacturing jobs. The author then proceeds to tick off how little the Dems have done lately on each of those issues the WWC cares about. > [@](#): > > What prevents Democratic candidates for the White House and Congress in 2016 from running in the primaries and the general election on a campaign to raise the minimum wage, expand Social Security, legislate universal paid family leave, and crack down on foreign nations that cheat at trade? We all know the answer: Democratic donors. Most, though not all, of the rich people who fund the Democrats tend to be economically conservative, even if they are socially liberal. A party funded by fiscally-conservative Wall Street financiers and the intellectual property rentiers of Silicon Valley is not going to pursue the interests of the working class of all races in expanding universal entitlements and substantially raising taxes on the rich, even if its successful candidates strike populist poses in campaigns. A genuinely progressive presidential candidate would never survive the fund-raising “money primary” that comes before the actual voter primaries. > > But isn’t the white working class irrational to vote for Republicans who claim they want to destroy middle-class entitlements like Social Security and Medicare? Not necessarily. Paul Ryan can publish all the libertarian budget manifestos he likes, but when it comes to actually voting to cut Social Security or Medicare for the working class, Republican members of Congress inevitably flinch. Working-class white Republican voters have learned that, however much Republicans may slash spending on the poor, they will usually protect benefits for their constituents Well, let’s assume a way can be found around the above obstacles – if the Dems actually started dishing out some progressive red meat for the WWC, would that win their votes? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/2 "2014-04-09T20:52:05Z")
I don’t know… based on my experience, a lot of white working-class people probably self-identify as middle class, and have a perception that the Democratic party wants to redistribute their wealth to the poor (which means blacks and Mexicans to them), and they want no part of that, even if in reality, they would probably benefit from a lot of the same policies. IMO, if the Democratic party wants to win the hearts and minds of white working class people, they need to concentrate on positioning themselves as the party for the white working class people as the largest single group in the US, and quit emphasizing the support for minorities and fringe groups. They also need to emphasize that they’re for the white working class group as opposed to the Republicans, who are for the upper middle and upper classes. That’s how I’d try and spin it anyway, even if I didn’t actually lessen the material support for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/3 "2014-04-09T21:27:22Z")
> [@bump](#): > > IMO, if the Democratic party wants to win the hearts and minds of white working class people, they need to concentrate on positioning themselves as the party for the white working class people as the largest single group in the US, and quit emphasizing the support for minorities and fringe groups. I’m not sure this would win them move votes and it would cost them. And how are you proposing they do this? Phrased this way it sounds like it would get very racist. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/4 "2014-04-09T21:28:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I don’t know… based on my experience, a lot of white working-class people probably self-identify as middle class . . . Perhaps, but, whenever they vote their pocketbooks, they will do so based on working-class realities. > [@bump](#): > > IMO, if the Democratic party wants to win the hearts and minds of white working class people, they need to concentrate on positioning themselves as the party for the white working class people as the largest single group in the US, and quit emphasizing the support for minorities and fringe groups. They also need to emphasize that they’re for the white working class group as opposed to the Republicans, who are for the upper middle and upper classes. > > That’s how I’d try and spin it anyway, even if I didn’t actually lessen the material support for anyone. You misunderstand. The article is about nothing to do with **spin.** When I spoke of “progressive red meat” I meant **policies,** not messaging. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/5 "2014-04-09T21:33:21Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I don’t know… based on my experience, a lot of white working-class people probably self-identify as middle class, and have a perception that the Democratic party wants to redistribute their wealth to the poor (which means blacks and Mexicans to them), and they want no part of that, even if in reality, they would probably benefit from a lot of the same policies. I agree with this assessment. A typical WWC is highly HIGHLY attuned to the poor nipping at their heels. This is one reason the GOP has been effective in courting these voters - they have provided the racial wedge that separates and (in their minds) builds a wall between them and the poor. Of course, in the process, the GOP is willing to throw the poor/blacks/hispanics under the bus. If the Democratic party can find a way to fill that base need with these voters, then they would have a chance. But it would really take a genius to come up with a message that satisfies the WWC need for a wedge, as well as not alienating the poor/blacks/hispanics. The WWC really doesn’t want to hear “we are all in this together”, to them that just sounds like you want their daughter to marry “one of them”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/6 "2014-04-09T22:02:47Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I agree with this assessment. A typical WWC is highly HIGHLY attuned to the poor nipping at their heels. This is one reason the GOP has been effective in courting these voters - they have provided the racial wedge that separates and (in their minds) builds a wall between them and the poor. Of course, in the process, the GOP is willing to throw the poor/blacks/hispanics under the bus. > > If the Democratic party can find a way to fill that base need with these voters, then they would have a chance. But it would really take a genius to come up with a message that satisfies the WWC need for a wedge, as well as not alienating the poor/blacks/hispanics. The WWC really doesn’t want to hear “we are all in this together”, to them that just sounds like you want their daughter to marry “one of them”. It’s not about what they want to **hear,** it’s about what they want to **have.** From the same article: > [@](#): > > And then there’s the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare. The social programs that enjoy the greatest level of support from white working class voters are universal, non-means-tested programs like Social Security and Medicare which reward work by being funded with payroll taxes. > > What, then, did Obama and the Democrats offer these voters, in 2009? A version of the right-wing Heritage Foundation and Massachusetts Romneycare plans, based on means-testing (not universalism), individual mandates (not universal payroll or other taxes) and subsidies to private insurance companies. > > FDR and LBJ offered white working class voters universal social insurance programs—Social Security and Medicare—and were rewarded with huge Democratic majorities in Congress and presidential elections, even though the white working class was far more racist and culturally conservative than it is today. Obama and the Democrats in 2009 offered a deeply-flawed version of a pro-business, right-wing health care scheme and may lost Congress this year and the White House in 2016. > > Would working-class white voters walk away from great deals like those offered by Roosevelt and Johnson today, because of racism or moral traditionalism? We don’t know, because no Democratic president since LBJ has offered anything resembling the popular New Deal/Great Society entitlements. Carter, Clinton and Obama all ran as populists, but then they governed as moderate economic conservatives with slightly liberal social views. Most of their policy innovations have been means-tested programs like Obamacare focused on helping the poor, not universal entitlements like Social Security and Medicare that help working-class families who may make too much money to qualify for welfare-program means tests. There’s your ready-made spin right there: “We’re not offering programs aimed at helping the poor, but the working class.” (“White” being implied between the lines, just as “black” is ineluctably implied between the lines when they speak of “the poor.”) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/7 "2014-04-10T01:47:35Z")
As you can probably tell by my other thread, I’ve been reading a lot about European politics lately. And the lesson that seems to come from there is that there are a lot of votes to be won by an anti-immigrant, economically leftist party. Since there already exists a leftist party that is pro-immigrant in every European country, and yet they are still bleeding white support, it looks like democrats are going to have to choose what their coalition is going to be. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/8 "2014-04-10T01:55:46Z")
I’d also note that the more economically progressive you get, the more you lose the middle class. They are the ones that have to pay for all these ambitious ideas. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/9 "2014-04-10T03:56:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d also note that the more economically progressive you get, the more you lose the middle class. They are the ones that have to pay for all these ambitious ideas. No, that would be the ruling class. The working class does indeed have to pay (too) for all those ambitious ideas, but also **benefits** from all those ambitious ideas, which the ruling class does not. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/10 "2014-04-10T04:01:36Z")
That cost/benefit analysis has to be made by the individual taxpayer, and the way US politics is right now, raising taxes on even the upper middle class is political suicide. You can’t fund the government right now, much less pile on more benefits, without taxing the middle class more. Which will result in massive losses for the Democrats. Which is why they don’t do it. I think the better question to ask in this thread is could the Democrats win white working class voters by persuading them that a more economically progressive agenda is better for them? Because you’re putting the cart before the horse. Campaign on that agenda and they’ll lose, badly. It would be like conservatives trying to campaign on a Tea Party platform in 1964. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/11 "2014-04-10T04:04:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That cost/benefit analysis has to be made by the individual taxpayer, and the way US politics is right now, raising taxes on even the upper middle class is political suicide. You can’t fund the government right now, much less pile on more benefits, without taxing the middle class more. Which will result in massive losses for the Democrats. Which is why they don’t do it. No. Several times in the last couple of years Democrats have tried to raise taxes on people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and Republicans have rejected the concept time and time again. That’s not the upper middle class, and it’s not political suicide, it’s politically impossible. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/12 "2014-04-10T04:06:46Z")
I’m not sure hundreds of thousands, as in $200,000 or more, is upper middle class. Nor can you get very much revenue from that group. Not enough to fund the government’s current obligations anyway. And BrainGlutton is talking about doing MORE. That’s going to take middle class tax increases. No way around it. And that can’t be done without persuading the middle class to support such an agenda. You can’t campaign on something you haven’t laid the groundwork for yet, at least not successfully. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/13 "2014-04-10T04:16:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And the lesson that seems to come from there is that there are a lot of votes to be won by an **anti-immigrant,** economically leftist party. One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn’t belong. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/14 "2014-04-10T04:20:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m not sure hundreds of thousands, as in $200,000 or more, is upper middle class. OK, I’ll admit this was unfair. I knew as soon as I said this that you were going to quote the Republican talking point and all I’d have to do is quote the facts to show that it’s ridiculous. Median annual household income in the U.S. is around $53,000. [$200,000 a year puts your household in the 95th percentile.](http://www.foreconomicjustice.org/10156/if-your-family-earns-more-than-200000-youre-in-the-top-5-percent) In fact calling that upper middle class is kind of crazy. If the middle class extends above the 95th percentile the term means nothing at all. > [@](#): > > Nor can you get very much revenue from that group. Not enough to fund the government’s current obligations anyway. What is your basis for saying this? I think it’s possible that those kinds of revenue increases and other spending cuts could go the job. And of course that other big contributor to the deficit, the Great Recession, is fading from view. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/15 "2014-04-10T04:30:31Z")
If the Democrats want to be more progressive, the smart direction to go would be to push for a true universal health care system. Health care costs are a pocketbook issue that working class and middle class voters care about. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/16 "2014-04-10T04:34:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn’t belong. yet they exist. There is nothing inherently contradictory between economic progressivism and being anti-immigration. Immigration and trade are basically the same issues, and economic progressives have never seen a problem in the US with being anti-trade. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/17 "2014-04-10T04:38:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What is your basis for saying this? I think it’s possible that those kinds of revenue increases and other spending cuts could go the job. And of course that other big contributor to the deficit, the Great Recession, is fading from view. According to the CBO, rescinding the Bush tax cuts on those making over $250,000 would have generated $950 billion in revenue over 10 years, or $95 billion per year. Even after the recession has faded away, that’s less than a fifth of the deficit we have right now. Even if I grant that with full employment plus eliminating the remaining tax cuts for those making over $250,000, you’re still not getting extra money to do even more. You’re basically stuck just defending the status quo. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/18 "2014-04-10T04:39:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If the Democrats want to be more progressive, the smart direction to go would be to push for a true universal health care system. Health care costs are a pocketbook issue that working class and middle class voters care about. I can think of nothing more awesome than for Democrats to campaign to repeal and replace ACA. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/19 "2014-04-10T12:46:01Z")
In that case, it would be “improve”. The Republican version is, and would continue to be, simply “repeal”; “replace” is a massive lie and has always been one. But you know that, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747/20 "2014-04-10T13:58:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I can think of nothing more awesome than for Democrats to campaign to repeal and replace ACA. Me neither, depending on what replaces it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-dems-win-the-white-working-class-vote-by-getting-more-aggressively-progressive/685747.md?page=2)