# Could the government really destroy downloaders computers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 18, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637 "2003-06-18T05:08:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/41 "2003-06-19T12:39:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > **Put it this way- if it were indeed possible, malicious hackers would be doing it already just for kicks.** IMO this is one of the best and brief answers of the thread. Given the extreme lengths to which hackers et al go to to develop things to cause havok or to just see “I wonder if I can do this…”, if there was an exploit to do this very thing, we’d be hearing about it now. One can bring up some anecdotal evidence of a magic “HD destroying code” or “modem inferno code” or “monitor destroying code”. And in theory, it looks like some of them _could_ work. But I also know some pretty sharp people who purposefully tried several of these exploits from detailed instructions, repeatedly, and never once succeeded. The Linux monitor thing was one of them - they tried on half a dozen monitors, and never did anything worse than produce a really bad whine. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/42 "2003-06-19T12:49:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by casdave \* > \*\*How many folk woud buy a computer they knew was capable of being damaged in this way ? > > It’d kill the computor trade dead, everyone would stick to their old machines, and their old software, we would probably not need technical help lines as stuff aged and slowly became better developed, even Microsoft might find time to take bugs out of their OS instead of writign new OS’s. > > Would a high end user with a computer critical business want such a vulnerablilty ? > Any system used for law enforcement would be extremely highly targetable to. \*\* The vast majority of computer owners do not look into the details of things like this. They trundle down to Dixon’s or Best Buy and just grab a system. The office environment is, sadly, in a similar situation. Often the people in charge of purchasing computers for large companies are completely ignorant of the details of the systems, and buy from whichever company gave them the best gifts. I personally in my life have spoken to a man who _claims_ to have purchased more than 2000 of one type of PC because the vendor gave him 2 free tickets to San Francisco for a “product demo”, which consisted of tours of the winerys of Napa Valley with his wife. Look at how many people blindly go down and pick up Windows XP because “it’s the newest Windows”? And yet, from my alarming experience with XP over the last 3 months, XP is an OS filled with a frightening and Byzantine array of security holes, security layers that are poorly understood, insane quirks that change key system properties without notice and without apparent cause, “spyware” built-in by Microsoft. It seems like every other day I discover a new log file intended to track something I do on my computer. And the stability is absolutely laughable compared to WinNT, which is a truly sad thing to say. I would never willingly have had a machine with XP for those reasons, and yet my company blindly forces us all too. I have no doubt that if the Government mandated a “self-destruct” code on computers such that if so much as one MP3 appeared on the harddrive or one JPG of Britney Spears dressed a Catholic Schoolgirl appeared in IE, my company would order them just the same, with no hesitation. And Mr. and Mrs. Average would continue to buy new ones every 3 years, because “now Windows has tint control!” ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/43 "2003-06-19T14:02:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*This is a completely false statement. My works of intellectual property on my computer are MINE, regardless of whether or not I have a cutesy DRM system in place. \*\* Unless you are a multi-billion dollar corporation, your real property rights are only what the multi-billion dollar corporations permit them to be. That’s not how the law is written, but it is how it works. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/44 "2003-06-19T14:40:59Z")
I think Hatch is talking about the future. So, yes, i would say its possible. If Intel can make an ID chip, then they can surely put in other things that would let remote computers access your Intel CPU. Of course, they could just find another security leak in MS Outlook & use that too 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/45 "2003-06-19T15:20:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Punoqllads \* > \*\*I missed **netscape 6** ’s cite of diamond v riaa. Intriguing… \*\* oops sorry, i forgot the cite. it was just that utter bull i was responding too had me a little ticked. here is a cite: [http://www.hk-lawyer.com/2001-6/June01-cover.htm](http://www.hk-lawyer.com/2001-6/June01-cover.htm) scroll down too: > [@](#): > > and the Diamond case (where the copyrighted music was transferred from the user’s computer hard drive to the user’s portable MP3 player for personal use) because the argument was only valid if the shifting method did not simultaneously involve distribution of copyrighted material to the general public. anyway if mp3s of copyrighted files were illegal mp3 diamonds argument would have been viod. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/46 "2003-06-19T15:24:46Z")
Viruses have been targeting the boot sector and file allocation tables of hard drives for a long time now. [For example](http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_1039.htm), Rocko has been around since 1992. As far as I know, there’s still no simple or inexpensive way to recover the entirety of the data lost after a FAT is corrupted. That effectively “destroys” the system as it existed, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/47 "2003-06-19T16:03:23Z")
Yes, it seems to me that for the average person “destroying” your computer means erasing your files and making it impossible to boot to Windows. If you press the power button and the machine makes funny beeps and you get an unfamiliar black screen with white text and your mouse doesn’t work then that counts as destroyed, at least as far as Orrin Hatch is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/48 "2003-06-19T16:06:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > \*\*I think Hatch is talking about the future. So, yes, i would say its possible. If Intel can make an ID chip, then they can surely put in other things that would let remote computers access your Intel CPU. > > Of course, they could just find another security leak in MS Outlook & use that too 🙂 \*\* Personally all the ansewers i have seen on here are technically based on could you destroy ,render useless a pc of some vintage. What I am not seeing in regards to the original post is the scare mongering that this discussion will engender. So out of population of 300 million , say around ten million techies will be safe, if this does or could exist. That leaves somewhere around 150 million soccer moms that want something done , oughta be a law. Just remembering the Y2K scare ramping up towards the end of 98 and then ratcheting up severely towards december of 99 , that this bill or idea is meant to terrorize people if its implemented. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/49 "2003-06-19T17:16:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*Cops find stolen merchandise on your person. Cops then burn all your clothes and beat you up for it, or if they find it in your house, they then burn your house down for it. > \*\* Almost there. Hatch’s point was that the cops wouldn’t be involved. So a better analogy is: Merchandise wholesaler believes you have stolen goods on your person. The wholesaler’s people seize you, strip you naked, burn your clothing, and tear apart your house – not to look for the goods, but just because they have a (law-defined) reasonable belief that you have them. You have no recourse under criminal or civil law. (Also note that it’s the wholesaler who does this, not the manufacturer nor the retailer.) ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/50 "2003-06-19T20:10:05Z")
Oh, and on the EFF’s website there is a copy of the RIAA v. Diamond [decision](http://www.eff.org/cafe/19990615_appeal_decision.html), for those of you who would like to see it from the horse’s mouth. The relevant portion is Section III, note 10, about 3/4 of the way down. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637/51 "2003-06-20T09:32:19Z")
Check this out - from [Hactivisimo](http://www.hacktivismo.com/news/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1466) . Hatch is a fucking moron. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-government-really-destroy-downloaders-computers/182637.md?page=2)