# Could the Hood \*possibly\* Have Whipped the Bismarck? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 17, 2020, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754 "2020-11-17T01:22:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/61 "2020-11-28T17:25:57Z")
The German converted Merchant ship raiders easily got fuel oil from their prizes. Their stories are very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/62 "2020-11-29T12:18:25Z")
If instead of the Bismarck the Germans somehow had a fully crewed and fueled Yamato how different would things have turned out? The AA guns on the Yamato would have shredded the biplanes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/63 "2020-11-29T16:49:36Z")
No. The AA suite on the Yamato in 1941 was pretty piss poor, no better than the German’s. By the time of her demise it had been beefed up considerably, but still not anywhere close to American standards. The Bismarck had trouble lowering their guns sufficiently to target the slow moving and rather insubstantial biplanes. [[Cite]](http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm#antiaircraft) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/64 "2020-11-29T17:08:43Z")
I remember reading decades ago a time travel story where an F4 Phantom and crew wound up in 1916 Europe. “A real game changer,” they thought but it was not so. It took weeks to strain enough kerosene for one flight and the plane had no gun pod. Not only did they have only a handful of missiles, the planes of the period had so little metal in them, radar could not get a reliable lock. They wound up flying one combat mission and knocked their opponents out of the sky by zooming down upon them and hitting them with the jet blast. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/65 "2020-11-29T17:13:03Z")
I well remember “Eagle among Sparrows.” It suffered from the usual sf flaw of the era: over-stating the point. Yes, _some_ of the disadvantages the story brought up were valid, but not all of them, and not to the extent in the story. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/66 "2020-11-29T17:50:05Z")
Agreed, and the American and UK AA was also pretty bad in 1941. I’m wondering how things would change using Yamato instead of Bismarck. It’s an interesting way to compare the designs. Some thoughts: Yamato is a bit slower than Bis, so the British battleships should be able to intercept from a much better angle—they could ‘cross the T’ of the Germans. Maybe Norfolk, Suffolk, and the 5 destroyers can be in the fight. Yamato is much better armored. Hits like the one vs Bis amidships will do less damage. The 18” is so much more powerful than the German 15”, PofW is now about as vulnerable as Hood was to Bismarck. The 18” shell was designed for long and stable underwater travel. The underwater hits on Hood and PofW will do much more damage than the German ones. The German guns fire faster. Fewer hits for Yamato? Yamato had the largest and highest rangefinder, ever. More hits for Yamato? ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/67 "2020-11-29T18:43:46Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I well remember “Eagle among Sparrows.” [Hawk Among the Sparrows](https://www.fantasticfiction.com/m/dean-mclaughlin/hawk-among-sparrows.htm) by Dean McLaughlin ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/68 "2020-11-29T18:46:32Z")
Damnschatzer! Serves me right for EVER trusting my memory! (See thread about aging…) I stand by my critique that it overstressed its points, but that was a major trope of SF of that era. (Lots of space battle stories where one lonesome scout ship destroyed the entire invading armada, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/69 "2020-11-29T21:11:37Z")
I believe they also had supply ships that they met up with. Not sure if they had oilers/fuel ships, but I suppose I could look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/70 "2020-11-29T22:08:12Z")
The Germans also had “milch cow” submarines during WWII that they might have used to resupply the _Bismarck_ and similar surface raiders, with modifications. > **[Type XIV submarine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_XIV_submarine)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > The Type XIV U-boat was a modification of the Type IXD, designed to resupply other U-boats, being the only submarine tenders built which were not surface ships. It was nicknamed the "Milchkuh/Milchkühe (pl.)" (milk cows) or U-Tanker. > German Type XIV submarines were shortened and deepened versions of the Type IXDs. The boats had a displacement of 1,688 tonnes (1,661 long tons) when at the surface and 1,932 tonnes (1,901 long tons) while submerge... ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/71 "2020-11-29T23:48:43Z")
Apparently they did have oilers at sea–_Prinz Eugen_ refueled from one after being detached from _Bismarck_. The earlier operation _Berlin_ was suported by several oilers. Admiral Holland’s original plan was to meet the German ships right after sunset, approaching in the dark while the Germans were silhouetted in the light. _Hood_ may have been able to get close enough to avoid plunging fire, and her 15" guns were certainly powerful enough. For this plan to work, _Suffolk_ needed to stay in constant radar contact, but contact was lost for about 90 minutes, so when they did meet _Bismarck_ it was under much less advantageous conditions. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/72 "2020-11-30T00:18:02Z")
They did, yes. But they loved to grab a oiler, etc so they could extend their cruising time. or they could just suck the fuel oil from a merchantman’s tanks, then sink it. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/73 "2020-11-30T00:42:12Z")
> **[German auxiliary cruiser Pinguin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Pinguin)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > The Pinguin was a German auxiliary cruiser (Hilfskreuzer) which served as a commerce raider in World War II. The Pinguin was known to the Kriegsmarine as Schiff 33, and designated HSK 5. The most successful commerce raider of the war, she was known to the British Royal Navy as Raider F. The name Pinguin means penguin in German. > Formerly a freighter named Kandelfels, she was built by AG Weser in 1936, and was owned and operated by the Hansa L... > **[German auxiliary cruiser Atlantis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Atlantis#:~:text=The%20German%20auxiliary%20cruiser%20Atlantis,in%20602%20days%2C%20and%20sank)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > The German auxiliary cruiser Atlantis (HSK 2), known to the Kriegsmarine as Schiff 16 and to the Royal Navy as Raider-C, was a converted German Hilfskreuzer (auxiliary cruiser), or merchant or commerce raider of the Kriegsmarine, which, in World War II, travelled more than 161,000 km (100,000 mi) in 602 days, and sank or captured 22 ships with a combined tonnage of 144,384. Atlantis was commanded by Kapitän zur See Bernhard Rogge, who received the... Here’s two of the most successful German Q-ships/raiders. They provided stores and fuel to U-boats and other German ships. Interesting tales. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754/74 "2020-11-30T00:45:44Z")
Read the books about their exploits- fascinating! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-hood-possibly-have-whipped-the-bismarck/925754.md?page=3)