# Could the minority party elect a Speaker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 5, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687 "2023-01-05T00:12:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/1 "2023-01-05T00:12:21Z")
The Speaker is elected by members-elect; the constitution says nothing about parties. If the majority party is splintered, couldn’t the minority party easily have enough votes, more than either faction of the majority, to elect their own candidate? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/2 "2023-01-05T00:17:30Z")
A bipartisan solution is being discussed. Apparently the minority members get to vote. > **[Would Democrats agree to a deal in the race for House speaker?](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/democrats-agree-deal-race-house-speaker-rcna64205)** > > Retired Rep. Fred Upton, a relative GOP centrist by contemporary standards, is suddenly interested in being House speaker. Would Democrats consider a deal? > [@](#): > > The Michigan Republican added, “I would need Democrats. I could get a significant number of Republicans.” > > The next question, of course, is whether Democrats would go along with such a plan. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/3 "2023-01-05T00:26:20Z")
The person with the **majority** of votes cast wins; party doesn’t matter. The minority party (by definition) doesn’t have enough votes to win, unless some portion of the majority party votes for the minority party’s candidate. If Majority Candidate A gets 25% of the total votes, Majority Party Candidate B gets 26% of the total votes, and Minority Party Candidate C gets 49% of the votes (all the minority party votes, but no more), then nobody wins because nobody has the majority (in fact something similar to that already happened) ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/4 "2023-01-05T00:33:00Z")
OK so the winner must get a _majority_ of votes cast, not a _plurality_. That answers the question. Which also explains why a handful of R’s can block McCarthy, since the GOP majority margin is not huge. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/5 "2023-01-05T00:34:16Z")
Exactly. The Republicans have the same margin as the Democrats had last session, but it’s not working out quite as well this time ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/6 "2023-01-05T00:34:43Z")
A majority of votes cast other than as “present”. Assuming no vote to change the rules to allow plurality wins. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/7 "2023-01-05T00:36:41Z")
Right. For the purposes of this election “present” is the same as absent. I think there have been cases where the House has used a plurality rule, but they’d need a plurality for the rule change - and that’s unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/8 "2023-01-05T00:38:33Z")
I think majority for the rule change. And then I think needs confirmation by a majority after selection. But not seen source for that bit. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/9 "2023-01-05T00:45:50Z")
There must be 218 votes from the Members-elect to select the Speaker. That is one more than half of the total count of the House (435). If the House wants to change the threshold, it can only comes from a House rules change. - But that requires actual Members to vote on the rules change. - But that requires those voting to be Members. - But that requires the oath of office to be administered in order to be Members. - But that requires a Speaker to be selected by the Members-elect so that the Speaker can administer the oath to the Members-elect to become Members. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/10 "2023-01-05T01:06:24Z")
Apparently, there were two previous times in history when nobody could get a majority of the votes for Speaker, and after a large number of failed ballots, eventually the House voted to change the rules to make a plurality sufficient. So it’s possible, at least theoretically. Whether it’s possible politically, in the current situation, is not a question for FQ. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/11 "2023-01-05T01:16:27Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > There must be 218 votes from the Members-elect to select the Speaker. That is one more than half of the total count of the House (435). No, it’s a majority of votes cast. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/12 "2023-01-05T01:24:49Z")
In both cases, they merely held a plurality vote and apparently agreed that they would then vote for whoever got the plurality vote in the next ballot so that they’d get the majority required. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/13 "2023-01-05T01:35:55Z")
Boehner was elected with 216 votes in 2015. Pelosi was elected with 216 votes in 2021. > **[January 2015 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2015_Speaker_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives_election)** > > John Boehner > Republican > John Boehner > Republican > On January 6, 2015, the first day of the 114th United States Congress and two months after the 2014 U.S. House elections, the incoming House members held an election for its speaker. This was 123rd speaker election since the office was created in 1789. The incumbent, John Boehner, received 216 votes, a majority of the votes cast and was re-elected to office, despite a coordinated effort by Freedom Caucus Republicans to oust him. > **[2021 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Speaker_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives_election)** > > Nancy Pelosi > Democratic > Nancy Pelosi > Democratic > On January 3, 2021, the first day of the 117th United States Congress and two months after the 2020 U.S. House elections, the incoming members of the U.S. House of Representatives held an election for speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives. It was the 127th U.S. speaker election since the office was created in 1789. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/14 "2023-01-05T06:08:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@Duckster](#): > > > > There must be 218 votes from the Members-elect to select the Speaker. That is one more than half of the total count of the House (435). > > No, it’s a majority of votes cast. I think the president pro tem of the house (Democrat) is not casting her ballot so only 434 votes, which is why Jeffries is getting 213, still 218 needed to win. They mentioned on the news one R voted present, so only 433 votes and so 217 needed to win. The GOP are not going to change the rules to plurality, because unless they get everyone on board (or, all but 8?) they would lose to Jeffries(D). I think the Dems are just having too much fun watching the clown parade implode to bother fixing it yet… If 40 of the Dems vote present, then McCarthy could win with 201 thus royally annoying the 20. . ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/15 "2023-01-05T06:14:30Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > I think the president pro tem of the house (Democrat) is not casting her ballot so only 434 votes, which is why Jeffries is getting 213, still 218 needed to win. The reason that only 434 votes are being cast is that there is a vacant House seat right now; [Donald McEachin](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3753775-house-democratic-rep-donald-mceachin-dies-at-61/), a Democrat from Virginia, died from cancer in November, after having won re-election to his seat earlier that month. Jeffries is getting all 212 (not 213) Democratic votes on each ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/16 "2023-01-05T07:54:35Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > OK so the winner must get a _majority_ of votes cast, not a _plurality_. That answers the question. Which also explains why a handful of R’s can block McCarthy, since the GOP majority margin is not huge. That’s a reason but another is that McCarthy isn’t sufficiently centrist for anyone but R’s to vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/17 "2023-01-05T12:22:33Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > I think the president pro tem of the house (Democrat) is not casting her ballot There is no president pro tem of the House. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/18 "2023-01-05T19:43:15Z")
It has happened in the past that they agreed to allow a plurality to elect the speaker. I guess if they voted for such a rule, the dissidents would be forced to accept McCarthy since, from their point of view, a Democrat would be even worse. Any further speculation on the situation doesn’t belong here. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/19 "2023-01-05T19:43:56Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > the dissidents would be forced to accept McCarthy since, from their point of view, a Democrat would be even worse At least one has said he’d rather see Jeffries as Speaker than McCarthy. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687/20 "2023-01-06T04:16:42Z")
So if the winner needs half of votes cast, who are the Democrats voting for? If they abstained then McCarthy would have been elected. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-minority-party-elect-a-speaker/977687.md?page=2)