# Could the One Ring ever have been destroyed on purpose? (LOTR spoilers, if you care) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 25, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154 "2013-08-25T20:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/1 "2013-08-25T20:58:15Z")
After finally seeing _The Hobbit_, I’ve been rewatching the LOTR movies this weekend. I thought it was notable that the ring was only destroyed by accident–when Gollum fought Frodo at the fires of Mordor and fell over the edge of the cliff. Apparently, it was a little different in the book… Gollum was dancing so happily with the ring that he fell into the fires by himself. I haven’t read the book, but I read some commentary that the intervention of Eru caused Gollum to lose his balance. So I thought I’d ask here… was there anyone with the will to throw the One Ring into the fires of Mordor? Or was an accident the only way it could have been destroyed? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/2 "2013-08-25T21:43:23Z")
Difficult to say. It’s conceivable that Sam might have, and also conceivable for Frodo or Bilbo if they had somehow found themselves right at the Crack without having borne the weight of it for years beforehand. Tom Bombadil probably could have done it, but for him, it wouldn’t be an act of will, but rather one of whimsy. And likely any of the Valar could, simply by virtue of being so much more powerful than it or Sauron, but they’d learned by this point that direct intervention in Middle-Earth tended to have unfortunate side effects. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/3 "2013-08-25T21:45:46Z")
In the books there was the character of Tom Bombadil. The ring had no power over him, but he didn’t care much about anything that happened outside of this little patch of land that he lived on. But if the others could have made him give a crap, and if they could have helped him get safely to mount doom, then he would have no problem throwing the ring in. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/4 "2013-08-25T21:45:59Z")
Maybe, under the right circumstances. Bilbo managed to give it up, after all, even after holding it for decades. Sam gave it up fairly easily after brief exposure. The trick is getting the Ring to the site under the necessary circumstances: you’d almost certainly need a bearer who hasn’t had it long enough for it to set its hooks deeply, and since it’s a long, hard journey, that’s a problem. Anyone who had carried it all the way to the mountain would be too ensnared to do it willingly. I think Sam is the only one who might have managed it, had things played out differently. If Frodo had carried the Ring all the way to the Mountain, then died on the ascent, Sam could have taken it the rest of the way without having time for it to get much of a grip on him. With Frodo’s last words urging him to destroy the Ring, and Sam blaming it for his death, he would have a strong drive to do it. That might have been enough, even in the heart of the Ring’s power. On the other hand, if the Ring managed to play on being Frodo’s last “gift” to Sam, he’d be screwed. At that point, the best hope would be if he managed to throw himself into the fires, rather than allow it to be taken. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/5 "2013-08-25T21:54:21Z")
For most potential ringbearers, throwing oneself in while still in possession of the ring might well have been easier than giving it up. ---
**Author:** ![Orr\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ee59a6/32.png) [@Orr\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orr_G)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/6 "2013-08-25T21:55:45Z")
I think it’s quite telling that it was Smeagol who’s life was sacrificed in order to destroy the ring. Smeagol, who had possessed the ring far longer than anyone but Sauron. Smeagol, who had been warped and bent and who’s life had been destroyed by the ring. Bombadil or Sam could perhaps, under the right circumstances, have been technically capable of destroying the ring, but only Smeagol could have been the sacrifice that the story (if not the mythology) demanded. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/7 "2013-08-25T21:57:52Z")
If Aragorn had taken the thing at Bree, there’d be no need to destroy it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/8 "2013-08-25T22:04:11Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > If Aragorn had taken the thing at Bree, there’d be no need to destroy it. 😉 You are obviously unfamiliar with the history of Númenor if you think that’s a good idea 😉 Someone with the power of Ar-Pharazôn _and_ the Ring would probably destroy the world, or at least his descendants would. Especially if Arwen remained with him. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/9 "2013-08-25T22:13:10Z")
See? He had an elven princess, a captive wizard, and a halfling army. He’d have been unstoppable! ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/10 "2013-08-25T23:13:31Z")
I think it is possible. Especially if you include suicide or murder. Sam could have pushed Frodo in, which may sound morbid, but was what I was afraid was going to happen when I read the book at the age of 13. I also think that Frodo or Sam might have been able to do it. I know Frodo was not able to in the book, but I don’t think that means it is impossible that someone like him couldn’t. The more innocent the creature, I think the easier it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/11 "2013-08-25T23:32:41Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Sam could have pushed Frodo in, which may sound morbid, but was what I was afraid was going to happen when I read the book at the age of 13. But the Ring was a force of evil working to wear away its bearer’s morality. Somebody that was willing to kill a friend or even an innocent stranger would already have a weak morality and be more vulnerable to the Ring’s control. In one sense it was Gollum not Sam who sustained Frodo during the journey through Mordor. Frodo’s willingness to believe in Gollum’s redemption was a strong shield against the Ring’s power. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/12 "2013-08-26T02:21:33Z")
Have Faramir follow Frodo and Sam across the desert. At the last moment, he pops up, says, “Wow, I did find it by the side of the road,” shrugs, and tosses it in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/13 "2013-08-26T02:38:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Somebody that was willing to kill a friend or even an innocent stranger would already have a weak morality and be more vulnerable to the Ring’s control. Being willing to sacrifice your friend’s life (if you knew he was willing to sacrifice it himself) and/or your own life in order to save the world from ultimate evil might be the highest kind of morality there is. If Frodo had taken the ring for himself Sam’s most moral course of action would have been to push him in (since that’s what the “real” Frodo would have wanted). However, I don’t think Sam could have done that under any circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/14 "2013-08-26T02:43:19Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Have Faramir follow Frodo and Sam across the desert. At the last moment, he pops up, says, “Wow, I did find it by the side of the road,” shrugs, and tosses it in the pit. His dad would never forgive him. ---
**Author:** ![ruh-roh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ruh-roh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruh-roh)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/15 "2013-08-26T03:28:59Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Especially if you include suicide or murder. Sam could have pushed Frodo in… or this: “Hello,” said a gray lump behind them. “Long time no see.” “Goddam, old shoe,” crooned Spam, and dropped a coin at Goddam’s feet. “Small world,” said Frito as he palmed the Ring and clapped the surprised creature on the back. “Look!” cried Frito, pointing to an empty sky. “The Winged Victory of Samothrace.” And as Goddam turned to see, Frito looped the chain over his neck. “Holla,” cried Spam, “a 1927 indian-head nickel!” and dropped on his hands and knees in front of Goddam. “Woops!” said Frito. “Aiyeee,” added Goddam. “Floop,” suggested the tar pit. Frito let out a deep sigh and both boggies bade a final farewell to the Ring and it’s ballast." from: “Bored of the Rings by the Harvard Lampoon” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/16 "2013-08-26T03:45:27Z")
Well, yeah, if you’re gonna actually cite from the book… ETA: Why the hell didn’t someone capitalize on the LOTR movies and make a cheap independent BOTR movie? Talk about your free publicity! ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/17 "2013-08-26T03:52:27Z")
Tolkien did actually touch on this idea. The following is from an old post of mine. Here’s what Tolkien said in [letter 246](http://www.americanidea.org/handouts/06240110.htm): > [@](#): > > For me perhaps the most tragic moment in the Tale comes in II 323 ff. when Sam fails to note the complete change in Gollum’s tone and aspect. ‘Nothing, nothing’, said Gollum softly. ‘Nice master!’ His repentance is blighted and all Frodo’s pity is (in a sense\*) wasted… > > But ‘possession’ satisfied, I think he would then have sacrificed himself for Frodo’s sake and have _voluntarily_ cast himself into the fiery abyss. The whole letter is extremely interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/18 "2013-08-26T16:27:30Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > … Gollum was dancing so happily with the ring that he fell into the fires by himself. I haven’t read the book, but I read some commentary that the intervention of Eru caused Gollum to lose his balance. Actually, it was possibly the intervention _of the Ring_ that caused Gollum to lose his balance. Frodo bound Smeagol to his service by making him swear by the Ring itself – essentially, he used the Ring’s power to enforce Smeagol’s oath. If I recall correctly, Frodo even tells Smeagol that the Ring would destroy him if he broke his promise. When Gollum betrays Frodo, he breaks that oath. And he is, in fact, destroyed by (his desire for) the Ring. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/19 "2013-08-26T16:30:15Z")
Yeah, I remember a bit at the foot of Mount Doom where Sam sees Frodo as a figure clothed in white, with a wheel of fire at his breast, and Gollum as a dark, utterly ruined being, and a voice comes from Frodo’s chest saying something like “if you bother me again, you will be cast into the Cracks of Doom.” I just saw that as foreshadowing, though. I sincerely doubt that the One Ring would willingly destroy itself just to spite Gollum. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154/20 "2013-08-26T17:47:06Z")
Sam, or no one. Sam was largely selfless and the Ring didn’t offer anything he wanted. Isildur wanted power and glory. Smeagol was a grasping monster of envy. Bilbo was mostly harmless, but he was a creature of ego and appetite who craved attention. Frodo was a good person, but he was accustomed to being a leader and succumbed to the ring telling him that he ought to be the one in charge of it all. (Query whether Frodo’s decision to break the Fellowship was influenced by the Ring). Sam was a servant at heart, without ambition of his own. The only thing that truly motivated him was Frodo’s well-being, and destroying the Ring would have served that end. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-one-ring-ever-have-been-destroyed-on-purpose-lotr-spoilers-if-you-care/667154.md?page=2)