# Could the Pope destroy the Catholic church? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 7, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596 "2011-04-07T22:27:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/21 "2011-04-11T11:56:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I was wondering if he could use the very-rarely-used power of Papal infallibility to declare that now and forevermore the Catholic church would be dissolved into autonomous, that there would be no central authority for the teachings of Jesus now and forevermore, that Catholics would be responsible for their own interpretation of scripture, and that anyone who tried to recreate a central Catholic authority would be placing himself outside the church. This might run afoul of [Holy tradition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Tradition), I can’t tell for sure, but at the very least I could see this sending a few shockwaves through church structure. No, because infallibility requires him to be acting as Pontifex, “in representation of the Church and inspired by the Holy Ghost” (paraphrasing and translating from Spanish). The Church would rapidly decide that His Holiness needed to take the waters, yes? Cut down on the caffeine, yes? Decaf cappuccinos, heavy on the chocolate, that’s exactly what the doctor ordered (a medical one; the Doctors of the Church missed writing on the food of the gods). Here, Your Holiness, these nice Swiss Guards will lead you to your car and drive you to a nice balnearium… ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/22 "2011-04-11T12:00:45Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Some even think this would be the only way to retain the German Catholic Church, as after all the revealed scandals and crimes of the last years, the believers are leaving the church in swarms. Sadly, no, they aren’t leaving in swarms due to the abuse scandals. You know how many left the RCC in Germany in the last months when several abuse scandals (Bishop Mixa…) were in the forefront of the media? Go on, guess: 1%. They loose more people due to apathy or that they can’t afford (mandatory) church tax (9% of the income tax). ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/23 "2011-04-11T14:13:43Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Sadly, no, they aren’t leaving in swarms due to the abuse scandals. You know how many left the RCC in Germany in the last months when several abuse scandals (Bishop Mixa…) were in the forefront of the media? > > Go on, guess: > > 1%. > > They loose more people due to apathy or that they can’t afford (mandatory) church tax (9% of the income tax). Well said. Many use scandals as an excuse to “come out of the closed” and display their “I no longer beleive” instead of “I haven’t for a looooong while, but went though the motions” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/24 "2011-04-11T14:37:38Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > If he announced that he was going to marry Cardinal Sin next week, there might be some stirrings among the cassocks. > [@flodnak](#): > > Especially since Sin has been dead for nearly six years… That only makes it better! “Cardinal Sin” would make a great supervillain name for an undead evil priest. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/25 "2011-04-11T15:53:57Z")
Actually, it would be far more likely and effective in destroying the Catholic Church if he were just to come out and announce the Absolution and complete forgiveness for every priest and bishop involved in any pedophile scandal. Not just past, but future. Which means the church will no longer apologize or punish any of it’s own people for raping children. That as priests are forbidden to marry, the church accepts their right to fulfil their carnal needs with children, and that this is not a sin, but a right of priesthood. That any parent or parishoner that objects will be excommunicated. Of course, I would tend to expect that in mid-speech, he’d be dragged kicking and screaming from the podium by the Cardinals. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/26 "2011-04-11T16:36:59Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Sadly, no, they aren’t leaving in swarms due to the abuse scandals. You know how many left the RCC in Germany in the last months when several abuse scandals (Bishop Mixa…) were in the forefront of the media? > > Go on, guess: > > 1%. > > They loose more people due to apathy or that they can’t afford (mandatory) church tax (9% of the income tax). Of course you’re right that the abuse scandals are not the prime reason for the German (ex-)catholics to leave the church, but there seems to be a correlation between all the bad news the church made since the beginning of last year and an increase of 40 % in the number of withdrawals from the catholic church. [From sueddeutsche.de](http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/katholische-kirche-in-der-krise-zahl-der-kirchenaustritte-steigt-um-prozent-1.1081955): > [@](#): > > Am Berliner Canisius-Kolleg nahm einer der größten Skandale in der katholischen Kirche seinen Anfang. Im Januar 2010 gab der Rektor der renommierten Jesuitenschule bekannt, dass es dort zum systematischen Missbrauch an Kindern und Jugendlichen durch katholische Geistliche gekommen war. Mehr als ein Jahr danach erweisen sich die Folgen des Skandals als verheerend für die katholische Kirche: Die Zahl der Kirchenaustritte stieg im vergangenen Jahr um 40 Prozent. Etwa 180.000 Katholiken haben 2010 nach Recherchen der Zeit-Beilage “Christ & Welt” ihre Kirche verlassen. > > (…) > > “Der Anstieg der Kirchenaustritte im Jahr 2010 steht auch für einen Vertrauensverlust, den die Kirche besonders durch die Missbrauchsfälle erlitten hat”, räumte der Kölner Generalvikar Dominik Schwaderlapp in der Zeitung ein. “Das ist schmerzlich für uns, weil offenbar viele Menschen den Kirchenaustritt als ihre persönliche Form des Protests und der Abscheu vor diesem Skandal gewählt haben.” > > **My translation:** > > It was at the Berlin Canisius college where one of the greatest scandals of the catholic church started. In January 2010, the principal of the renowned Jesuit school announced that there had been a systematic abuse of children and adolescents by catholic ministers. More than one year later, the effects of the scandal turns out to be devastating to the catholic church: the number of withdrawals from the church increased by 40 % in the last year. According to research by the _Zeit_-supplement “Christ und Welt”, about 180,000 catholics have left their church in 2010. > > (…) > > “The increase of withdrawals from the church in 2010 also stands for the loss of confidence that the church has suffered from particularly because of the cases of abuse”, the Cologne vicar general Dominik Schwaderlapp conceded in the newspaper. “This is hurtful for us, because obviously there are many people who chose the withdrawal as their personal form of protest and disgust about this scandal.” ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/27 "2011-04-12T07:40:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Say what? That’s not simply a Catholic belief – those are central to Christianity itself. of course they are —for most christian denominations. but there are some denos that don’t believe this (mainly bible-based) and they like to swipe at the RCC often. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/28 "2011-04-12T10:59:51Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > The [Cadaver Synod](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod) sets the bar pretty high for how crazy you can get as pope and still not destroy the Church. > > If exhuming the body of the previous pope, putting it on trial, mutilating it after finding him guilty, and tossing the corpse in a river when you’re done doesn’t do it then you’ve really got to up the ante. In fairness to the Church (can’t believe I just wrote that) exhuming and trying people wasn’t unknown in Europe by secular rulers too. It happened to Oliver Cromwell after the Restoration of the monarchy, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/29 "2011-04-12T14:15:02Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > No, because infallibility requires him to be acting as Pontifex, “in representation of the Church and inspired by the Holy Ghost” (paraphrasing and translating from Spanish). > > The Church would rapidly decide that His Holiness needed to take the waters, yes? Cut down on the caffeine, yes? Decaf cappuccinos, heavy on the chocolate, that’s exactly what the doctor ordered (a medical one; the Doctors of the Church missed writing on the food of the gods). Here, Your Holiness, these nice Swiss Guards will lead you to your car and drive you to a nice balnearium… Who gets to choose whether the Pope is acting in representation of the Church and is inspired by the Holy Ghost? I thought it was the Pope himself who made that call. I suspect that you’re right, that there would be an effort to depose him, and that someone else would take the mantle of being Pope. But I also suspect that, if he worded it eloquently and with Luther-style reasoning and dotted his i’s and crossed his t’s, he could cause a huge chunk of the faithful to break away. Infallibility is so rarely used that it would make a huge impression on a lot of people, and the automatic excommunication of anyone who tried to keep the church going would give a lot of people pause. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/30 "2011-04-12T14:56:56Z")
I now have a mental image of a 100ft Pope rampaging his way through Vatican city. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/31 "2011-04-12T23:19:07Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I now have a mental image of a 100ft Pope rampaging his way through Vatican city. Interesting Trivia: This film was intended to be “Attack of the Killer Potato”, but a mistranslation caused the mostly-Spanish crew to film the move you see here. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/32 "2011-04-12T23:50:22Z")
_ **Hulk Pope Smash!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/33 "2011-04-13T13:43:26Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > _ **Hulk Pope Smash!** _ That Would explain the animosity between [him & Thor](http://i37.tinypic.com/rcj1px.jpg)… ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/34 "2011-04-13T14:02:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Who gets to choose whether the Pope is acting in representation of the Church and is inspired by the Holy Ghost? I thought it was the Pope himself who made that call. The Church still has to agree with it. Think of it this way: if you go to a restaurant with a group of friends and the hostess asks “smoking or non?” and you answer “non smoking, please”, you’re acting in representation of the whole group. If nobody complains, non smoking it is. But if someone says “woah, smoking!” you need to talk things over (at the very least you have to tell them to suck it up). It wouldn’t be the first time that a bishop has to apologize to his flock for letting power go to his head - it just hasn’t been the Bishop of Rome so far. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596/35 "2011-04-13T14:53:59Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > …with beams from his eyes? Nah, everyone knows he would use [Pope Lightning](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_i3LEWkvKq5w/TSXMO8T7K_I/AAAAAAAAATA/1N04GS6shYE/s200/Pope-Benedict-XVI-Unleashes-Force-Lightning.jpg). Other than that, though, you’re golden. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-pope-destroy-the-catholic-church/577596.md?page=1)