# Could the president, his wife, hit squads, a house member, a senator, and the AG take over America? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079 "2010-12-05T23:39:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/21 "2010-12-06T01:29:02Z")
I’m also uncertain that the US Attorney General could cavalierly move the trial for murder, clearly a state matter, into federal court. That would challenge certain state rights. Is there even a federal stature against murder? If not then how could the AG take over the matter? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/22 "2010-12-06T01:58:19Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > The question isn’t, “Will this work?” The question is, “Does this fall within the letter of the law?” Of course it is illegal. Just like any other coup, the illegality will be masked by BS. Murdering other branches of government is not constitutional, period. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/23 "2010-12-06T02:06:17Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Disagree. The 218 and 51 are assuming that there are a full complement of Representatives and Senators. If there are only 1 in each body, then they would constitute a quorum. > > No. Do you have a cite. The constitution says a majority of members, but it isn’t clear if that means a majority of actual seated members or the majority of the number of people that would be in each chamber if each state had a full delegation. Also, my understanding is that they only need a quorum if someone in the chamber asks for a quorum call. Presumably our hypothetical one-man legislative chambers wouldn’t ask for such a call. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/24 "2010-12-06T02:34:25Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Do you have a cite. The constitution says a majority of members, but it isn’t clear if that means a majority of actual seated members or the majority of the number of people that would be in each chamber if each state had a full delegation. [This](http://www.answers.com/topic/house-of-representatives) was the first page I found. > [@](#): > > The Constitution was ratified by the requisite number of states (nine out of the 13) in 1788, but its implementation was set for March 4, 1789. The House began work on April 1, 1789, when it achieved a quorum for the first time. IOW, this hasn’t been debatable since day one of the U.S. > [@](#): > > Also, my understanding is that they only need a quorum if someone in the chamber asks for a quorum call. Presumably our hypothetical one-man legislative chambers wouldn’t ask for such a call. It’s the opposite. > [@](#): > > The Constitution specifies that a majority of members known as a quorum be present before doing business in each house. However, the rules of each house assume that a quorum is present unless a quorum call demonstrates the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/25 "2010-12-06T02:39:14Z")
Exactly. Unless there is a quorum call, it’s assumed that a quorum is present. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/26 "2010-12-06T02:43:25Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It’s the opposite. Isn’t that the same thing as what I said? A quorum is assumed unless a member asks for a quorum call. Presumably our one-man senate isn’t going to ask for such a call, so quorum will be assumed and votes can proceed as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/27 "2010-12-06T02:56:31Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Isn’t that the same thing as what I said? A quorum is assumed unless a member asks for a quorum call. Presumably our one-man senate isn’t going to ask for such a call, so quorum will be assumed and votes can proceed as usual. Since Really Not All That Bright and I both thought you meant the exact opposite, your post wasn’t as clear as you thought. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/28 "2010-12-06T03:35:43Z")
I understood what he meant. I thought you had misread your own citation. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/29 "2010-12-06T04:04:31Z")
I see what you’re saying. Because of the two questions Simplicio asked, I thought that he was questioning the \*fact \*of what the number of a quorum is. I think the question of whether a single person would satisfy the entirety of the standing rules of the House and Senate is still open, though. For example, how could anything be seconded? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/30 "2010-12-06T04:20:50Z")
Presumably the first order of business would be changing the standing rules. Or we could just modify the OP’s scenario so that a dozen or so loyal congresspeople get to live, instead of one per house. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/31 "2010-12-06T04:21:04Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > The members of each house get to determine who is qualified to be a member. The two remaining Congress members could refuse to accept anyone a state or governor attempts to appoint. My recollection of the Adam Clayton Powell case is that the Court has ruled that Congress’ power to determine the qualifications of a duly elected or appointed putative member extends only to whether that member meets the qualifications set forth in the Constitution (age and so forth). Congress does not have the legal authority to refuse to seat a member on other grounds. Congress can vote to _expel_ a member, but the newly-seated members would be permitted to participate in that vote. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/32 "2010-12-06T04:22:06Z")
Members get to vote on their own expulsions? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/33 "2010-12-06T04:26:32Z")
(never mind) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/34 "2010-12-06T04:26:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Presumably the first order of business would be changing the standing rules. Or we could just modify the OP’s scenario so that a dozen or so loyal congresspeople get to live, instead of one per house. I think the real problem is that you’re trying for a legal coup d’etat. That trick never works, not even if you get a larger hat. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/35 "2010-12-06T04:28:42Z")
For the benefit of anyone reading this thread from a black helicopter, let the record show that I am not personally attempting any sort of _coup d’etat_, legal or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/36 "2010-12-06T05:21:59Z")
You have to choose the senator carefully - make sure he’s not from a state that has a recall mechanism, unless the plan includes declaring such mechanisms in violation of federal law. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/37 "2010-12-06T10:04:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You have to choose the senator carefully - make sure he’s not from a state that has a recall mechanism, unless the plan includes declaring such mechanisms in violation of federal law. I don’t think you can recall any federal legislators. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/38 "2010-12-06T10:10:58Z")
I think this is one case where the spirit of the law should be followed, rather than the letter. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/39 "2010-12-06T10:42:42Z")
The Constitution requires each house to “assemble” and “meet”, but one person can neither assemble nor meet. I think if you kill all the senators but one then you no longer have a senate as envisaged by the Constitution. And, overlooking that point, in so far as the standing orders of either house would need to be amended to enable the house to function with just one member, this itself would have to be done in accordance with standing orders. Thus, _before_ killing all but one of the senators, the plotters would have to persuade the Senate to amend standing orders so that business could be done if the Senate had only one member. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079/40 "2010-12-06T11:53:42Z")
You stipulate as part of the question that the people writing laws and the person interpreting laws are under the presidents control. Which makes the entire issue of ‘is this legal’ rather silly. Of course it’s legal, as part of your hypothetical you stipulated that the President can write whatever law he wants and can have any existing law interpreted however he wants. Now, if the question is “Is it legal under current rules” the answer is obviously no. As already mentioned, states would nail the President for murder. I’m quite sure a creative state AG could find a way. Also note, the hypothetical does not allow him to change the Constitution. So, assuming the President felt bound by the Constitution, the absolute max he has in office is 8 years even if all other methods of removal failed. There’s no way to change limit unless 3/4 the states went along with repealing the 22nd Amendment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-his-wife-hit-squads-a-house-member-a-senator-and-the-ag-take-over-america/563079.md?page=3)