# Could the President of the United States hire private security staff? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 4, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366 "2014-10-04T08:02:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/41 "2014-10-07T01:35:06Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > -not sure the exact rule, but the US military cannot be used internally against US citizens, except in war or rebellion. So the Navy Seals can’t substitute for the Secret Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/42 "2014-10-07T06:46:28Z")
**Ravenman** is essentially contending that the president’s body belongs to the government in the same manner as does the White House lawn. In other words, that its care and protection has been assumed officially and exclusively by the government. Certainly, I cannot supply a citation establishing that this argument is wrong, but I suspect that that comes largely from no one ever having seriously advanced it anywhere. On the other hand, to be fair, no one’s ever really suggested hiring a private security force in addition to the Secret Service either. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/43 "2014-10-07T08:13:31Z")
I was thinking that this question should simply be emailed to the White House. Now I’ve read the rest of thread and see there is some contention, it seems doubly worth doing. Just don’t forget the bit about the pensioner. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/44 "2014-10-07T12:33:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > No, that isn’t what it says. You’re adding words into the statute that simply aren’t there. The title of the code in question is “31 U.S. Code Chapter 13 - APPROPRIATIONS” And here is the definition of [Appropriations](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/appropriation) Notice the words “public funds” used in the definition. It seems YOU are the one adding words to the statute that simply aren’t there, namely “personal funds” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/45 "2014-10-07T12:35:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > **Ravenman** is essentially contending that the president’s body belongs to the government in the same manner as does the White House lawn. No, that is totally incorrect. The laws I’ve cited have literally nothing to do with personhood or any related concept. It all has to do with whether private funds can be used to augment or replace functions performed by ththe Federal government. As I’ve said several times before, a President can’t privately hire someone to act as White House Counsel but not be on the government’s payroll. That doesn’t mean that the President’s mind belongs to the government. It just means that the law doesn’t allow shadow government agencies to operate beyond the scope of congressional oversight, checks and balances, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/46 "2014-10-07T12:55:00Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > As I’ve said several times before, a President can’t privately hire someone to act as White House Counsel but not be on the government’s payroll. This must be the disconnect, but I don’t think anyone is saying that. I know I’M not. You are correct, the President couldn’t hire someone and that person be called “White House Counsel” or have the authorities vested in that position. The president, CAN, however, hire a lawyer to advise him on anything he wants, as long as he doesn’t call that person White House Counsel. Same with the private security force. Nobody is saying the President would hire security guys and CALL them the Secret Service, nor would they have the inherent authorities the Secret Service has. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/47 "2014-10-07T13:05:28Z")
Ok, cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/48 "2014-10-07T13:58:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Ok, cite, please. How can I provide a cite for something that is LEGAL? Seems like you should provide at least one cite of a federal employee charged with a crime for expending personal funds in the futherance of government business. If you cannot, the conclusion is clear - such actions are NOT illegal. The cite I posted above contains years worth of reported violations of the Antideficiency Act, NONE of which involve a federal employee using personal funds for government business. Obvious conclusion - using personal funds is NOT a violation of the Antideficiency Act. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/49 "2014-10-07T14:00:07Z")
OK, here’s a question: Is a federal employee allowed to send a personal package via FedEx? If yes, cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/50 "2014-10-07T14:12:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, here’s a question: Is a federal employee allowed to send a personal package via FedEx? If yes, cite for that? Is this question for me? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/51 "2014-10-07T14:29:32Z")
What if he pays his private guards with counterfeit money? They’re not Secret Service; they might not notice. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/52 "2014-10-07T15:38:33Z")
If he can’t hire security guards could he hire hookers in places where it is legal as long as he paid with his own money? Could he open up a brothel in Nevada with his own money and call it the western White House? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/53 "2014-10-07T15:40:38Z")
What about soldiers who buy their own gear because the standard government issue equipment isn’t adequate? AFAIK this is happening (and has always happened) on a large scale. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/54 "2014-10-07T15:42:27Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > If he can’t hire security guards could he hire hookers in places where it is legal as long as he paid with his own money? Could he open up a brothel in Nevada with his own money and call it the western White House? Just mingle the whores in with the lobbyists, nobody will notice. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/55 "2014-10-07T15:47:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, here’s a question: Is a federal employee allowed to send a personal package via FedEx? If yes, cite for that? They are compelled to. I don’t care to spend any more time looking this up than I have to, but here is one cite specifically for DoD: > [@](#): > > C1.4. UNAUTHORIZED USES OF APPROPRIATED FUND POSTAGE > Appropriated funds may be used only for official mail relating solely to the business of the United States Government. Thus appropriated funds may not be used to pay postage for: . . . > > C1.4.9. Personal mail, holiday and birthday greetings, unofficial retirement > announcements, and similar material. [Link.](http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/452508m.pdf) My God, I have just provided a cite to show that something is LEGAL! Wow! In GQ, no less! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/56 "2014-10-07T15:51:43Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > What about soldiers who buy their own gear because the standard government issue equipment isn’t adequate? AFAIK this is happening (and has always happened) on a large scale. Depends on what it is. [The Army](http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,92859,00.html) banned the use of body armor that didn’t meet the standards of the government-provided body armor. In terms of buying sunglasses, gloves, boots or whatnot, that is no different than me using the nice pen I bought while I’m sitting in my government-issued office. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/57 "2014-10-07T15:53:14Z")
Surprisingly enough, if you do not have any appropriated funds left to send official mail, you can use your own personal funds to do it! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/58 "2014-10-07T15:54:40Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > What about soldiers who buy their own gear because the standard government issue equipment isn’t adequate? AFAIK this is happening (and has always happened) on a large scale. Yes, this is legal, despite what Ravenman is spouting. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/59 "2014-10-07T16:01:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, this is legal, despite what Ravenman is spouting. Post 56. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366/60 "2014-10-07T16:24:42Z")
Can you point out where in Post #56 that you state it is a violation of the Antideficiency Law, which is what you said prevented these types of purchases? And per your own cite, the Army didn’t ban them because of illegal augmentation of appropriated funds, which was originally the crux of your argument. I guess we are moving goal posts now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-president-of-the-united-states-hire-private-security-staff/700366.md?page=4)