# Could the Texans have held the Alamo? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408 "2007-04-24T02:41:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/21 "2007-04-27T03:20:52Z")
Oh, and I just gotta add this bit from Book VIII, 'cause it’s just too kewl to leave out: > [@](#): > > The Texan pickets, poised on the cool ground > beyond the fortress walls, gazed up in wonder > at armies of the stars. There was no sound > in all the dark and dormant planet under > those glimmers, bright as rainbows after thunder. > The prairie wind, an intermittent breeze, > blew from the effervescing galaxies. > > Above the silhouette of Bexar’s church > the tranquil blue stars of Centaurus gleamed; > beyond that glint, stormers began to surge > across a log stockade. Onward they streamed, > two-legged reptile warriors, redeemed > in battle, when they rendered up their lives > as tributes to their queen and all her hives. > > Another war was starting, in a void > a million galaxies away, due east > of Bexar through Bootes. Strikes destroyed > a satellite, but not till it released > a swarm of missiles, black and smooth. They teased > their rivals by a gas globe’s amber glow, > some cratering an ice moon’s rigid snow, > > some thistling soundlessly. While robots fought > three worlds away, in bunkers far below > their polities their masters watched as dot > chased phantom dot. Their agitation showed; > on leopard-colored slugs the tendrils glowed > red with anxiety. Which rival side > would own their homeworld, proxies would decide. > > At just that moment, on a fissured moon > beneath a crescent knotted by faint storms, > a stone-walled city by a farmed lagoon > was taken. Standards wobbled as the swarms > advanced down ramps of glass. The trilled alarms > of nurses were too late; by axes held > in mandibles, the squeaking grubs were felled. > > That massacre continued, fifty times > the Milky Way’s diameter away > from earth, through Draco. Where the ecliptic climbs > from Taurus through the Twins, the death of day > brought an armistice in another fray, > permitting flight by exiles, quadrupeds > whose fingered antlers grew from mouthless heads. > > The frightened calves were clicking, soothed by strokes > from pliant horns. Most here were cows, or bulls > too old to fight. A crowded wagon’s spokes > sank mired in the mud; the slaves tucked in their gills > and hoisted. Clicks of panic greeeted hulls > of sleek dirigibles, soft antlers bristled > and clenched as volleys flashed and rockets whistled – > > all this, west of the sleeping Alamo, > above the skyline’s fringe of sable brake. > The starlit Texan sentries could not know > that war balloons were veering round to rake > those refugees, just then; the light would take > a billion years to reach earth from that star. > That morning, half of heaven was at war. And finally, from Book IX: > [@](#): > > Our lady of annihilation, show > the seed of good within the pulp of pain, > the weal to grow from healing of this woe. > The arms of rival armies on the plain > of Rhodes, transmuted, rose above the main; > so may a new colossus stand and glow > beside the warless Gulf of Mexico, > > saying: _Let others, Yank, debase the proud > and dominate the destitute and weak. > Your fate’s to touch the planets, pierce the shroud > of secret nature, teach the tongue you speak > to sing with all the flair of the antique, > and make, with mongrel bronze, a blended race > matching its metal model in its grace._ ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/22 "2007-04-27T17:05:53Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] But in order to be a part of a plan it has to be part of a plan. Sam Houston wasn’t basing any plans around the defense of the Alamo - he had in fact told the defenders to abandon the Alamo and was probably unaware it was still be defended at the time the battle was going on. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say it was part of an official plan or a _good_ plan. Just that this was pretty common practice and may have been what the defenders were after. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/23 "2007-04-30T22:54:16Z")
Thanks all, very informative. Looks like it was a hopeless cause, unless the Texans had evacuated the Alamo. Were the Mexican losses that extreme that a sensible military would’ve called off the assault? 600 losses out of a force of 6000 appears very significant. To that affect, could the Texans have “held out”, figuring most generals (more sensible than Santa Anna) would think the cost was too high and quit funnelling in troops? Held out != victory, mind you. Doubtless, the end would’ve been the same. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/24 "2007-05-01T06:05:26Z")
I’m sure I remember being taught in school (in Texas) that Travis had gone to San Antonio with instructions to destroy the Alamo so the Mexicans could not use it and that he decided it was worth defending instead. But they never said why he made that decision. And it doesn’t read that way in the Wikipedia entry. Does anyone else know of this? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/25 "2007-05-04T15:21:13Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] …By the way–I don’t think there’s any way the Texans (whatever you choose to call them) could have won the Battle of the Alamo. [/QUOTE] What if they’d had a ninja? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/26 "2007-05-05T01:39:55Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m sure I remember being taught in school (in Texas) that Travis had gone to San Antonio with instructions to destroy the Alamo so the Mexicans could not use it and that he decided it was worth defending instead. But they never said why he made that decision. And it doesn’t read that way in the Wikipedia entry. Does anyone else know of this? I’m guessing but it may have been a false sense of security. The Texans weren’t military professionals and may not have been making a realistic appraisal of the situation. On the surface, staying together inside a fort with a bunch of cannons probably seemed like a better idea than making a run for it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/27 "2007-05-05T03:19:49Z")
**BG** , that is the kewlest thing I’ve ever seen. I MUST have that book! It goes to show that even the dumbest idea can sound noble when put into iambic pentameter. I mean, look at “The Iliad.” (researching) Oops! That was in dactylic hexameter, the most horrifyingly awkward meter EVAH! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/28 "2007-05-05T04:21:13Z")
You can call them **Texans** or **Texians**. Truth is you could call 32 of them [**Tennesseans**.](http://www.tennesseehistory.com/class/Alamo.htm) Even Sam Houston was from back up here. After the slaughter at the Alamo, James K. Polk challenged every state to raise 2,800 men to fight in the Mexican War. 30,000 Tennesseans showed up to fight. That’s when they earned the nickname the Tennessee “Volunteers.” Go Vols. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/29 "2007-05-05T06:25:07Z")
Polk presided over the 1846 War on Mexico. Was he really involved (ten years earlier) in calling for some sort of revenge for the Alamo? (I have also seen the claim that the nickname originated during the War of 1812, based on the good turnout of a call or volunteers to follow Andrew Jackson to New Orleans; I have no idea which story might be correct.) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/30 "2007-05-05T18:19:57Z")
[QUOTE=HubZilla] Thanks all, very informative. Looks like it was a hopeless cause, unless the Texans had evacuated the Alamo. Were the Mexican losses that extreme that a sensible military would’ve called off the assault? [quote] Maybe. Santa Anna could have possibly left a guard detail to kill anyone ocming out, which would have left them with the starve-or-surrender options. But he also may have wanted to keep the place from being a threat to his rear. He certainly attaked it weakly and wasted time and manpower. Aside from which, his military record is so-so. He was competant but not brilliant; a better politician than a commander. Texas actually only separated from Mexico after Santa Anna declared himself dictator, and the man was a walking disaster for his country. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/31 "2007-05-05T18:29:26Z")
[QUOTE=BMalion] What if they’d had a ninja? [/QUOTE] What a stupid suggestion. They would have needed Batman. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/32 "2007-05-05T18:44:56Z")
One of the major issues the defenders had to put up with was the actual structure of the walls. There was no crennalation to speak of, so when they fired at the Mexicans, they had to expose their bodies to do so. This was passingly okay while they were sniping at the Mexicans at a distance, but once the overwhelming charge started and the enemy got within firing range of their weapons, the Texans started getting shot and had to fall back from the walls. And once the north wall was breached, it was all over with. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2007, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408/33 "2007-05-06T04:15:17Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Polk presided over the 1846 War on Mexico. Was he really involved (ten years earlier) in calling for some sort of revenge for the Alamo? (I have also seen the claim that the nickname originated during the War of 1812, based on the good turnout of a call or volunteers to follow Andrew Jackson to New Orleans; I have no idea which story might be correct.) [/QUOTE] Yes, those were 10 years apart. My understanding of the Mexican War is that Texas said the border was the Rio Grande (still called the Rio Bravo in Mexico), while Mexico said it was the Brazos River farther inside Texas. After it became a state, Washington was burning the midnight oil trying to figure out how to get its hands on the Southwest, when Santa Ana crossed the Rio Grande to make good Mexico’s claim in that area. Voila! The US had a sudden excuse for war. Had nothing to do with the Alamo itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-the-texans-have-held-the-alamo/401408.md?page=1)