# Could there be a state 'deity' like there is a state bird? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 7, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434 "2006-03-07T21:52:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/1 "2006-03-07T21:52:33Z")
Just wondering if a state could make a state deity, like the old patron deities of early civilization, or would this run afoul of the establishment of a religion? Would it make a difference if a state chose a old Indian (native American) ‘God’, over Jehovia, Chirst or Allah? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/2 "2006-03-07T21:57:46Z")
How about Priapus? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/3 "2006-03-07T22:09:40Z")
I hear he goes longer, err, gets better gas mileage. ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/4 "2006-03-07T22:10:08Z")
Main Entry: es·tab·lish·ment Function: noun 1 : something established: as **a : a church recognized by law as the official church of a nation or state and supported by civil authority** b : a permanent civil or military organization c : a place of residence or esp. business with its furnishings and staff 2 a : an act of establishing b : the state of being established Source: [Merriam-Webster’s](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=mwlaw&q=establishment) Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc. So, yes, it would appear to count as “establishment”. That being said, I’m sure that some legal types would try and make distinctions between “church” (in the above definition), “religion” (in the Constitution), and “god” (in the resolution proposed by the state). On the other hand, in [Engel v Vitale](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale) (1962), the Supreme Court ruled that a state-sponsored prayer that mentioned “God” was enough to violate the Establishment Clause, even though the “God” wasn’t necessarily the God of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/5 "2006-03-08T01:43:11Z")
My vote goes to Huitzilopochtli, the Hummingbird from Paradise, Aztec god of war and human sacrifice. He can serve as _both_ state bird and state deity. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/6 "2006-03-08T01:45:29Z")
I believe the California state seal has gotten in to trouble for having a roman goddess (of agriculture, I think) on it. In earlier times it was pretty common for US states/towns/etc. to use classical gods/goddesses symbolically. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/7 "2006-03-08T01:47:36Z")
Why not the Flying Spagetti Monster? It flies - close enough to be state bird. It could be the state deity, and it could be the state noodly snack! Plus then we don’t need to worry about that whole “church” bit ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/8 "2006-03-08T02:16:59Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Could there be a state ‘deity’ like there is a state bird? Sure. But, for obvious reasons, it would have to be a **different** deity for every state. First Commandment notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/9 "2006-03-08T02:41:06Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I believe the California state seal has gotten in to trouble for having a roman goddess (of agriculture, I think) on it. It was the goddess [Pomona](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomona). Pomona is a city in Los Angeles County, hence it’s use on the old state seal. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/10 "2006-03-08T02:42:23Z")
Correction: It was the Los Angeles _county_ seal. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/11 "2006-03-08T03:21:20Z")
I don’t know about the Constitutionality of it, but how awesome would this make debates in the Senate? “Oh mighty Zeus, ruler of all the gods, lord of Olympus, and official state diety of Idaho. I call upon thee, in thy eternal, devine wisdom, to wield now thine fiery thunderbolt and incinerate all among this heathen rabble that dare oppose the motion to proceed to consideration of HR 1732, an act renaming the postal facility in Coure d’Alene the Frank J. Oglethorpe Post Office. Thy will be done.” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/12 "2006-03-08T03:41:43Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > I don’t know about the Constitutionality of it, but how awesome would this make debates in the Senate? > > “Oh mighty Zeus, ruler of all the gods, lord of Olympus, and official state diety of Idaho. I call upon thee, in thy eternal, devine wisdom, to wield now thine fiery thunderbolt and incinerate all among this heathen rabble that dare oppose the motion to proceed to consideration of HR 1732, an act renaming the postal facility in Coure d’Alene the Frank J. Oglethorpe Post Office. Thy will be done.” This is probably one reason why the Establishment Clause (“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”) was written in to the first amendment. IANAL but it seems to me that while the Establishment Clause gets tested (school prayer, nativiy scenes on government property, etc.) overt state endorsement of a religion is still off limits. So the idea posed in the OP would be the SCOTUS tosses it out. That doesn’t seem to stop politicians from trying to score cheap political points with a fundie voting block by putting such measures forth. IIRC some state is trying something very much like this right now. Missouri? (I forget) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/13 "2006-03-08T04:03:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Sure. But, for obvious reasons, it would have to be a **different** deity for every state. Why so? There’s lots of overlap in state birds. Seven states have the Cardinal, six the Western Meadowlark (oddly, nobody picked Eastern Meadowlark), five Mockingbird, and three American Robin. My guess is that there would be quite a few states that would go for Mammon. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/14 "2006-03-08T05:46:25Z")
> [@Rico](#): > > Correction: > > It was the Los Angeles _county_ seal. Nope. Since 1957, the Los Angeles county seal has a representation of a building with a cross representing the missions so crucial in the history of the county. In 2003 (yes, 46 years later) threatened to sue based on the establishment clause and the county board of supervisors folded like an accordion and redesigned the seal. Interestingly enough, Mission San Gabriel is still on the seal - just minus the cross. California on the other hand has a picture of Minerva who was born fully aged from the head of Jupiter. She represents the fact that California came into the Union fully-born (i.e. never a territory). This has been the seal since 1849. As for Pomona (the city), its city seal still has Pomona (the goddess). So bottom line, apparently there is no problem with goddesses or missions - just crosses. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/15 "2006-03-08T05:52:45Z")
Any bets on the state deity for my home state, Utah, as if anyone needed a reminder? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/16 "2006-03-08T06:19:09Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > In 2003 (yes, 46 years later) threatened to sue Oooooops. **The ACLU** threatened to sue ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/17 "2006-03-08T08:26:59Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Just wondering if a state could make a state deity, like the old patron deities of early civilization, or would this run afoul of the establishment of a religion? > > Would it make a difference if a state chose a old Indian (native American) ‘God’, over Jehovia, Chirst or Allah? Probably not for US states, but maybe in other countries. For all I know Ganesh is the official state deity of Punjab. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/18 "2006-03-08T12:59:38Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Probably not for US states, but maybe in other countries. For all I know Ganesh is the official state deity of Punjab. Doubt it; India is [constitutionally](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_India#Secular) defined to be a “sovereign socialist secular democratic republic”, so no state religion or state deity allowed. I believe that the constitutionally defined [relations between the states and the Union](http://www.constitution.org/cons/india/p11256.html) would therefore prohibit any individual state from having an official deity either, but you’d need an actual lawyer to say for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/19 "2006-03-08T13:43:31Z")
So if you emblazon Priapus on the state scroll, thereby breaking the Establishment Clause, would someone accuse you of blowing a seal? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-a-state-deity-like-there-is-a-state-bird/347434/20 "2006-03-08T18:49:43Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I hear he goes longer, err, gets better gas mileage. That was a little gem of a response.