# Could there be POSITIVE effects of same-sex marriage?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 27, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862 "2009-05-27T23:11:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/1 "2009-05-27T23:11:23Z")
So far, there have been some 357 or more postings in another thread discussing whether the opponents of ssm can come up with negative effects that could ensue from letting gays marry.
How about a thread listing **positive** effects?
Marriage as a whole is in crisis in the West. Divorce rates are high, and fidelity to a spouse is considered old-fashioned.
If a sector of society, gays and lesbians, want to be included in the marriage laws, does that diminish the institution, or does it, on the contrary, reinforce it as a social norm?
Any other ideas?
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### Author:  [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/2 "2009-05-27T23:15:33Z")
I think that the only positive effects of legalizing SSM will be in the lives of the relatively small percentage of the populace that actually _want_ SSMs, and that ephemeral ‘aura of goodness’ in being a country that actually respects civil rights. I do not think there will be any widespread practical effects on society of any kind, positive _or_ negative.
Which is not to say we shouldn’t allow it, obviously. Just that we need to find some other sop to solve all our problems with. Perhaps legalizing marijuana?
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/3 "2009-05-27T23:18:12Z")
Fidelity to your spouse is considered old fashion? Sure there’s plenty of infidelity out there, but I’m pretty sure it’s still considered a bad thing by most of the US population.
As for good effects of SSM marriage, well an obvious one is that weddings are good for the economy. A couple thousand more weddings a year should keep the caterers, DJ’s and wedding singers of the nation busy.
Probably not a huge effect, but one that’s fairly certain to exist and is pretty undeniably good for the nation at large.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/4 "2009-05-27T23:23:12Z")
I don’t have the cites at hand but I’m fairly sure the evidence indicates that people who get married tend to be more financially stable and professionally successful, all other things being equal, than those who do not, and less prone to a myriad of other social ills. So there could be overall economic benefits to allowing more people to get married.
There’s also the indisputable fact that letting people do something they want to do increases total social utility unless it stops other people from doing what they want. Freedom and choice are themselves benefits, and increasing them is a good thing, unless of course you don’t like freedom.
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/5 "2009-05-27T23:27:11Z")
Married gay couples are probably much more likely to adopt children then unmarried ones or straight couples, so if their state allows gay adoption (glares at FL), then adoption agencies should have an easier time placing orphans.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/6 "2009-05-27T23:27:31Z")
Other economic benefits:
–more work for lawyers drawing up pre-nuptial agreements and/or litigating divorces.
–more people covered by health insurance, as all married couples would be eligible for coverage under employer provided plans.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/7 "2009-05-27T23:30:49Z")
> [@Valteron](#):
>
> Any other ideas?
It will undercut the bigots when doom does not commence. It will chip away at respect for their position over time as people become used to same sex couples being married.
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### Author:  [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/8 "2009-05-27T23:30:59Z")
> [@Simplicio](#):
>
> As for good effects of SSM marriage, well an obvious one is that weddings are good for the economy. A couple thousand more weddings a year should keep the caterers, DJ’s and wedding singers of the nation busy.
>
> Probably not a huge effect, but one that’s fairly certain to exist and is pretty undeniably good for the nation at large.
[Study: Gay marriage cash cow for Mass.](http://www.365gay.com/news/study-gay-marriage-cash-cow-for-mass/)
\*A study by a noted university think tank has found that same-sex marriage in Massachusetts has resulted in a $111 million windfall for the state’s economy.
The study was one of two by the Williams Institute at the UCLA School of Law showing the state has significantly gained as a result of the legalization five years ago of gay marriage.\*
There are also the [1138 Federal benefits](http://www.equalitymatters.org/equality_matters/static/full_reasons)
And, personally, I’ve got 3 extra reasons. My SO’s three kids who call me “Dad #2” (and sometimes when they’re mad at my SO, I’m "Dad #1).
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### Author:  [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/9 "2009-05-27T23:31:16Z")
I believe very strongly that same-sex marriage will strengthen marriage as a social institution. As someone in favor of same-sex marriage, I think that’s a good thing.
I start with the simple premise that people look to their peers to determine how to live their lives. I don’t view that as contentious–it’s more or less a fact that people are influenced by those around them.
And whether conservatives like it or not, or accept it or not, there are gay people everywhere. They’re forming families, raising children, and getting to know other people.
What this means is that future generations are going to see gay couples who are their peers (as do present generations–but we’re talking about the effect on the future). They will see those couples live together, raise children together, and so on. The only question is whether the couples are married or not.
I think not allowing same-sex marriage will lead to people seeing a bunch of happy families who aren’t married-- which sends a clear message–marriage isn’t important to raise a family, or to be happy with your partner. People get along just fine.
I think allowing same-sex marriage will send out the opposite message. It will lead to people seeing that the kind of loving relationship couples create to raise children, to start a family, to live life together is a marriage. And that will strengthen marriage.
There are also the obvious positive effects on gay couples. Let’s not forget that marriage will let them know that one will be able to take care of the other and make decisions for them if they get sick, ensure that they can have children together without having to go through additional legal hoops to make both partners the legal parents, and will be able to be sure that if something happens to one when they aren’t prepared, the other won’t have to worry if a will exists.
Some say same-sex couples can get those things now. It is, in large part, true. But they have to get them piece-by-piece. They have to pay lawyers to set up a set of contracts. Some can’t afford that, some can; either way, it’s unfair to make them do so much to get what I could get with $100, a justice of the peace, and ten minutes.
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### Author:  [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/10 "2009-05-27T23:31:30Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> –more people covered by health insurance, as all married couples would be eligible for coverage under employer provided plans.
Even for companies who provide domestic partner coverage, that coverage is usually far more expensive than identical coverage for a domestic partner. Having a couple pay less for health insurance is more money that is available to spend on other things.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/11 "2009-05-27T23:42:01Z")
> [@whorfin](#):
>
> And whether conservatives like it or not, or accept it or not, there are gay people everywhere. They’re forming families, raising children, and getting to know other people.
Hello. Conservative here. Mind putting away that broad brush?
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### Author:  [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/12 "2009-05-27T23:44:34Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Hello. Conservative here. Mind putting away that broad brush?
Well, in truth, all conservatives will like it or not, and will accept it or not. Those are (with a little license to cover shades of gray that fall between the two) cover the entire spectrum.
I don’t think I was unclear–but you are correct that only some conservatives won’t like it. That being said, I don’t think my point is affected, or was in any way unclear even if I was about conservatives— whether or not they like it, that is how the world is, and the consequences of that are positive effects of gay marriage.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/13 "2009-05-28T00:23:19Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Hello. Conservative here. Mind putting away that broad brush?
IIRC, don’t you oppose gay rights?
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### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/14 "2009-05-28T00:23:50Z")
Given that the acceptance of SSM will also increase the acceptance of SS relationships, I’d expect the number of gay men and women who get into hetero marriages to conform should decrease, which should increase the average happiness of a marriage.
While there will always be infidelity, I’d suspect that the average number of partners someone has decreases after marriage, which should slow down transmission of STDs.
Some hetero people who know think marriage is a joke or a waste might change their minds given how important it is to those denied it. I’m pro-marriage, so I consider this a good thing.
Perhaps a married SS couple would be more likely to buy a house than a cohabiting one, because of the greater security. If this is true, greater demand would increase house prices (or stop the slide) which is a very good thing for many of us.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/15 "2009-05-28T00:57:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#):
>
> IIRC, don’t you oppose gay rights?
Nope. Not even close. I’ve been advocating for gay marriage here and elsewhere for years, largely on equal protection grounds.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/16 "2009-05-28T01:05:53Z")
[Keith Olbermann’s analysis](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2BOMPKhPwA), in response to a statement by Michael Steele that gay marriage would hurt small business.
Summary - the wedding industry alone would see a multi-billion-dollar boost.
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### Author:  [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2009, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/17 "2009-05-28T11:30:16Z")
> [@whorfin](#):
>
> I believe very strongly that same-sex marriage will strengthen marriage as a social institution. As someone in favor of same-sex marriage, I think that’s a good thing.
>
> I start with the simple premise that people look to their peers to determine how to live their lives. I don’t view that as contentious–it’s more or less a fact that people are influenced by those around them.
>
> And whether conservatives like it or not, or accept it or not, there are gay people everywhere. They’re forming families, raising children, and getting to know other people.
>
> What this means is that future generations are going to see gay couples who are their peers (as do present generations–but we’re talking about the effect on the future). They will see those couples live together, raise children together, and so on. The only question is whether the couples are married or not.
>
> I think not allowing same-sex marriage will lead to people seeing a bunch of happy families who aren’t married-- which sends a clear message–marriage isn’t important to raise a family, or to be happy with your partner. People get along just fine.
>
> I think allowing same-sex marriage will send out the opposite message. It will lead to people seeing that the kind of loving relationship couples create to raise children, to start a family, to live life together is a marriage. And that will strengthen marriage.
>
> There are also the obvious positive effects on gay couples. Let’s not forget that marriage will let them know that one will be able to take care of the other and make decisions for them if they get sick, ensure that they can have children together without having to go through additional legal hoops to make both partners the legal parents, and will be able to be sure that if something happens to one when they aren’t prepared, the other won’t have to worry if a will exists.
>
> Some say same-sex couples can get those things now. It is, in large part, true. But they have to get them piece-by-piece. They have to pay lawyers to set up a set of contracts. Some can’t afford that, some can; either way, it’s unfair to make them do so much to get what I could get with $100, a justice of the peace, and ten minutes.
This in an excellent post. I recall you posted it in the thread where **Magellan** started his duck and weave routine. Did he ever respond to it?
---
### Author:  [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2009, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/18 "2009-05-28T11:50:33Z")
> [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](#):
>
> This in an excellent post. I recall you posted it in the thread where **Magellan** started his duck and weave routine. Did he ever respond to it?
IIRC, not substantively–just with ducking and weaving. But I haven’t read that thread in a long time.
---
### Author:  [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/19 "2009-05-28T13:44:06Z")
> [@Simplicio](#):
>
> As for good effects of SSM marriage, well an obvious one is that weddings are good for the economy. A couple thousand more weddings a year should keep the caterers, DJ’s and wedding singers of the nation busy.
>
> Probably not a huge effect, but one that’s fairly certain to exist and is pretty undeniably good for the nation at large.
Don’t conflate marriage with weddings. It’s not necessary to be legally married in order to have a wedding ceremony. I’m sure many same-sex couples have held such ceremonies even in areas where same-sex marriage is not legally recognized. All that’s required for a legal marriage is a certificate from the government; a public ceremony has the purely social function of announcing to one’s friends and relatives that one is committing oneself to another and celebrating that commitment.
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-there-be-positive-effects-of-same-sex-marriage/497862/20 "2009-05-28T13:47:06Z")
> [@psychonaut](#):
>
> Don’t conflate marriage with weddings. It’s not necessary to be legally married in order to have a wedding ceremony. I’m sure many same-sex couples have held such ceremonies even in areas where same-sex marriage is not legally recognized. All that’s required for a legal marriage is a certificate from the government; a public ceremony has the purely social function of announcing to one’s friends and relatives that one is committing oneself to another and celebrating that commitment.
No doubt, but I suspect legalizing gay marriages (the legal version) will increase the number of couples who under go the ceremonial versions of gay marriages (or alternatively, some such couples will undergo a second ceremony when they get legal recognition, which is even better for the economy).
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